Re: [Frameworks] weird!

From: Jorge Amaro (email suppressed)
Date: Sun Jun 06 2010 - 03:58:06 PDT


The only thing II find weird, well maybe not so weird is that the list
is mostly US centric, with very few names from the rest of the world,
of the ones i've seen from the list, they are indeed marvellous works,
but there is a huge world of avantgarde cinema outside the US spectre
also and I feel that is always neglected by american audiences.

But even on the history of avantgarde film making, so far, it is
mostly US centric and that is why I dont find the list to be so odd. I
honestly had to read about the americans, to learn about the french,
italian, czech, spanish, polish, british, dutch, russian, serbian,
swedish, danish etc film makers. But by comparison american cinema is
much more documented than european one.

On 5 June 2010 19:04, Chris Lynn <email suppressed> wrote:
> Shelly I couldn't agree more-
> cheers,
> Chris
>
> --- On Sat, 6/5/10, Shelly Silver <email suppressed> wrote:
>
>> From: Shelly Silver <email suppressed>
>> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] weird!
>> To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" <email suppressed>
>> Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 1:51 PM
>> not completely off topic - i recently
>> heard yoko ono talk about fluxus
>> - how when george maciunas came up with the idea/name she
>> argued
>> against it, saying that it wasn't a movement.  but
>> looking back all
>> these years, she admired him for doing it, as now it has
>> entered
>> history, people talk about what these artists were doing.
>> it is a way
>> of saying something important is happening here.
>>
>> i was just on a jury of a film festival, another activity
>> of making
>> bests.  these competitions are strangely
>> contingent,  and benefit more
>> than harm, in that there are a plethora of festivals and
>> competitions
>> and never a consensus....  (perhaps i'm kidding myself
>> here)
>>
>> in terms of 'the list' i would like a list that focuses on
>> complexity,
>> sublists, additions - above all the word 'and'
>> best for the ongoing health of a practice/practices
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Chris Lynn wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Scott and Shelly,
>> > thanks for the insight!
>> > seems like Views and Film Comment have some special
>> relationship
>> > regarding the selection. Maybe it's just me, but is
>> anyone else
>> > troubled by the the word "best" ?- seems silly and
>> somewhat
>> > offensive. What was the criteria? Is this explained in
>> the magazine?
>> > I don't read Film Comment-I am hoping there is some
>> constructive
>> > analysis of their assessments-
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 6/5/10, Shelly Silver <email suppressed>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Shelly Silver <email suppressed>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] weird!
>> >> To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" <email suppressed
>>
>> >> >
>> >> Date: Saturday, June 5, 2010, 12:25 PM
>> >> dear scott..
>> >> in terms of the community, and this is a
>> community-based
>> >> listserve, my
>> >> question with all these kinds of lists is who
>> >> benefits.   i'm all for
>> >> benefits -they're useful
>> things.   clearly
>> >> the people who benefit are
>> >> those on the list (both selectors and chosen) as
>> well as
>> >> Views,
>> >> further consolidating an already very
>> consolidated
>> >> vision/structure.
>> >> (as you point out so well below)
>> >>
>> >> the next question is who doesn't benefit.
>> well,
>> >> everyone who is not
>> >> on the list.  for me these lists are most
>> often
>> >> scary  - they write a
>> >> very particular view of history as History.
>> does the
>> >> community
>> >> benefit?  i've always been one that thought
>> that
>> >> community, in the
>> >> long run, benefits from diversity, aesthetic
>> bouncings and
>> >> even
>> >> clashes, and above all inclusion.
>> >>
>> >> shelly
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 5, 2010, at 9:38 AM, <email suppressed>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> hi there--
>> >>> chris' advanced math skills aside -- i don't
>> find the
>> >> list weird at
>> >>> all.
>> >>>
>> >>> the editor of the list co-programs Views. the
>> editor
>> >> of the list
>> >>> sent a "pre-selection" of titles to the 46
>> selectors
>> >> which, included
>> >>> every film shown at views in the 2000's and a
>> >> sprinkling of others
>> >>> from Wavelengths that didn't show at Views.
>> these were
>> >> the
>> >>> 'recommended' titles so to speak, although
>> all
>> >> selectors were
>> >>> invited to add their own, of course.
>> >>>
>> >>> its been said before: Views skews way toward
>> >> distinguished gentlemen
>> >>> from the US.
>> >>> the list of selectors is mostly in this camp,
>> with a
>> >> sprinkling of
>> >>> women and folks outside the US.
>> >>>
>> >>> so its not weird at all to me that the list
>> lauds Mr.
>> >> Klahr, (and
>> >>> not just because he voted!) and crew, because
>> IMHO it
>> >> was a pre-
>> >>> determined self-congratulatory exercise.
>> >>>
>> >>> as all such lists of this ilk are...
>> >>>
>> >>> ciao,
>> >>> scott in toronto
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Scott Miller Berry, Executive Director
>> >>> THE IMAGES FESTIVAL
>> >>> 448-401 Richmond Street West
>> >>> Toronto, Ontario M5V 3A8 CANADA
>> >>> +1 416 971 8405 telephone
>> >>> +1 416 971 7412 facsimile
>> >>> http://www.imagesfestival.com
>> >>>
>> >>> "Gorgeous, startling and sometimes
>> >> baffling...Toronto's annual
>> >>> festival of experimental media art &
>> cross
>> >> disciplinary live events
>> >>> remains so stimulating after 20+ years of
>> existence."
>> >> -- Jason
>> >>> Anderson, EYE WEEKLY
>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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