Re: What a welcoming!

From: Flores-Gutiérrez, Beatriz (email suppressed)
Date: Sun Sep 07 2008 - 23:20:14 PDT

Hi Jeffery Paull,
>Please take the time to really explain your point of view.

I've been on the road and haven't checked all the turmoil until a minute ago, but let me sit down for a minute. I hope you don't think this is really what Frameworks is all about. I actually enjoyed many intelligent discussions here and many other links to important information.

"Grown-ups" is a relative term, as well as "American Politics". What I do know is that world affairs are not all that separate from decisions being made in the USA; it is rather strange to me that some people don't see the connections. In any event, I won't respond to whether the post was right or wrong, but what is interesting about the outcome of posting a link to Barak Obama's campaign free buttons on an experimental film discussion list is the variety of responses that somehow delineate the cultural/intellectual boundaries real or imagined by some of its subscribers.

Having curiosity for stories about border crossings of all kinds; let me tell you a story. A very creative friend of mine sent a film to a well known experimental film festival but his film got rejected; he went to the festival anyway in order to see what people considered experimental. He went home and made the film that he thought they would like, and sure enough, he got in the very next year. The film became totally irrelevant, and the thrill became breaking-in to the scene. So you see, some groups become so thightly delineated that its boundaries become almost tangible.

On a different case, a great group of artists didn't even wanted to be known because their ideas and work would be co-opted. They were very much against "bubbles" or groups divided by expertise. They liked flexible and permeable boundaries were the words multi, inter, trans (as inter-diciplinary, international, interactive, multidisciplinary, transcultural, etc.) allowed for a rich, challenging, and diverse discursive field. This group needed to constantly change so that nothing could label them and define (fix) them in time and space. This fluidity is very creative, and there's nothing like being able to play with whatever comes into your field without feeling threatened.

I might have not explain my pov, but it doesn't matter now really. I'm myself relatively "new" to frameworks, but not to on-line communities. I felt compeled to say hi and that I love Toronto! I go almost every year to Hot Docs.



Beatriz Flores Gutiérrez
Expressive Arts
Film/Video/Interdisciplinary Media
Com 359

-----Original Message-----
From: Experimental Film Discussion List on behalf of JEFFREY PAULL
Sent: Fri 9/5/2008 3:28 AM
To: email suppressed
Subject: What a welcoming!
Greetings -
I just signed up for Frameworks discussion List.
Wow! It's about 6am, I just finished brushing my teeth, and open my email and here's this whirlwind of serial discussion blurts.
Many of them seem as abstracted from the ideas they represent as the sound bites said by the so-called grown-ups in American politics.

When I and my sister were little kids, and we got into a "discussion",
they would, at times, turn into nothing more than, "I ALWAYS, and you NEVER . . . . . . ." (or "I NEVER, and you ALWAYS . . . . . .")
Not helpful.
I think there are important ideas beyond the scope of some one-liners Being posted.
Please take the time to really explain your point of view.
Your text on the monitor screen is so very very abstracted from the person who wrote it,
you need to open up a bit so your individual presence comes through.
We need to cut each other some slack, I believe.

                                                     JP in Toronto

On Fri 05/09/08 00:44 , Flores-Gutiérrez, Beatriz email suppressed sent:
> RE: My messages don't make it to the list!
> It is interesting how there appear to be cultural "gatekeepers", as
> if experimental film discussions needed to exclusively need to deal
> with the materiality of film and not contemporary issues that inform
> filmmakers or a border between contemporary socio-political context
> and the film apparatus.
> On the other hand, it's interesting how you can "be sad" about
> someone else's comments/input, and then feel others are "mean to you",
> as if your previous response was "loving" at all.
> It isn't like one stops being a filmmaker if you commented on
> current politics. Sure we can all continue to ask for filmmakers and
> their fabulous films, the whereabouts of so and so, and all the
> technology ever available to us, it is wonderful.
> Jai Uttal, sent the same e-mail to a massive list (with the
> difference that he is famous) and we all love him; by the way, let me
> get us back to filmmaking. The repetitions in Kirtan I realized the
> other night, had the same effect on me than flicker films, or certain
> kind of music that eventually, if you tune into it at all, can put you
> in a trance or ecstatic state. A friend of mine (a scientist) said
> you could do the same thing if you repeated anything at all, the name
> of kitchen appliances for example. I'm sure this is not news to many.
> Love,
> Beatriz
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Experimental Film Discussion List on behalf of k. a.r.
> Sent: Thu 9/4/2008 7:31 PM
> To: email suppressed
> Subject: Re: My messages don't make it to the list!
> (sorry about the multi posts, I'm in Mexico and my internet
> connection is weird.)
> I just want to say:
> I think all of you writing the nasty comments to me are just being
> mean, and looking for a fight.
> Well, you're not gonna get that from me, I'm a lover not a fighter
> :)
> Saying I am sick of obama is not a political comment, its more of a
> comment about
> the overload of attention, my point proven by the fact that there is
> a post promoting him on this FILM DISCUSSION LIST.
> What I said in the first post is the truth. This is a film
> discussion list.
> Putting a post on just to forward a link for political propaganda is
> not relevant to this list.
> That's the only thing I was trying to say.
> You people have made me really sad, the nasty personal attacks are
> 100% uncalled for.
> Let's just drop this, because I really don't appreciate the
> negativity that is being directed at me.
> And personal attacks are also NOT what this list is for, ya big
> bunch of meanies.....
> Kristie Reinders, B.F.A.
> Director of Cinematography, Electric Visions
> Curator and Head Projectionist, Electric Mural Project
> The Mission, San Francisco, CA
> 'A first class technician should work best under pressure.'
> - - - Issac Asimov
> _________________________________________________________________
> Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live.
> LYIA_whichathlete_us[1]
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at .
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at .
> Links:
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> [1]
> LYIA_whichathlete_us

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.