From: Chuck Kleinhans (email suppressed)
Date: Wed Aug 20 2008 - 13:25:38 PDT

On Aug 20, 2008, at 12:05 PM, Jim Carlile wrote:

> In a message dated 8/20/2008 7:58:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> email suppressed writes:
> On Aug 20, 2008, at 12:53 AM, Jim Carlile wrote:
>> p.s.--
>> how about a model that is based around working, rather than
>> organizing, or meeting, or creating an archive, or all the other
>> secretarial tasks that many people seem to prefer to the real thing.
> What the heck does that mean: "working"?
> Jim Carlile is great on attitude and abstract notions. But Jim,
> please can you please name one, two, or three current institutions
> that meet your rigorous standards? That would sure make it easier
> to understand your rhetoric, which seems to be based on slogans,
> not reality.
> Working means doing the craft. I can't name any institution,
> because there aren't any-- that's my point.

Well, of course there's another way to read this "point" which is
that Carlile is a utopian or purist and nothing would ever satisfy
him. Only he is pure, all else is crap.

Or you could wonder why Carlile doesn't put his shoulder to the wheel
and demonstrate to the world how a "working" organization can exist
and thrive in the real world. I'm sure he could convince a lot more
people if he had done some practical thing in the real world. But
any such thing would be human, flawed, imperfect, a work in progress,
wouldn't it?

As they used to say on my playground: "put up or shut up."


For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.