Re: Frameworks Decade and "vs."

From: Cari Machet (email suppressed)
Date: Sat Jan 27 2007 - 12:25:44 PST

c -
it is not to me so much discussing experimental works
but also what experimental works discuss
like stan's work like he did colorfield painting right but...
we can discuss the color
which we have
and we can discuss that it was about the optical 'manifestation'
that they were about
- what happens when the eyelids close
we can talk about what it meant that he was
going inside so deeply - inside our body experience
that he was creating for us a universal body experience - sharing this
how this gesture has allot of meaning - actually pulling all into one
then we can talk about what that means
- is all one?
and instead of superficially neverendingly talking about
the dorsky american beauty bag scene 'thievery'
actually talking about what the scene means
and how something so simple is so beautiful + perfect
lala la

the problem i have with the list is that
the deeper the discussion the more the academic cry
and try to say something is 'off topic'
as u stated it is not 'avant garde'
i was never told in art school that there was something on the planet
that i could not make art about
sometimes i think that maybe duchamp is right
and art is dead or dying
killed by academics defining it out of existence - out of it's level of
thru compartmentalization
- which is a great tool that heroin addicts use in their 'thinking' process
they have a family, a job, house, suv,
so what that they have a habit
all is well -

it is a good idea to use parenthesis or bracketing
that is what i sometimes do when i am being sarcastic
maybe just write (irony) - would help i think

i think anyone can at least try standing toe to toe with anyone else
(such 'myths' are made up + smoke screens)


On 1/27/07, Kevin Obsatz <email suppressed> wrote:
> I just wanted to say that my post title "365 vs. videohaiku" was
> intended as totally tongue-in-cheek.
> I certainly don't have the moxie to stand toe to toe with Jonas Mekas.
> Irony, I've found, is nearly impossible for me to communicate in
> email, especially with strangers...
> -kevin
> On Jan 25, 2007, at 10:17 AM, Captain P.J. wrote:
> > I have dropped in and out of Frameworks more times than I can
> > count. The thing that usually signs me off is one of these "vs."
> > threads: film vs. video, Mekas vs. Lucas, politics vs. politics,
> > Hollywood vs. Everyonelse, Godzilla vs. Spider-man (wait, that was
> > a different forum). In fact, when I see a thread that has fifty
> > responses, my first inclination is to delete all of them- I've
> > learned from experience that they have become "vs." threads. It
> > seems like there are so many boundaries and wars within
> > "experimental film" that it doesn't even feel liberating anymore!
> > How discouraging that must be to a newbie!
> >
> > I admit to being one of those "lurkers" lately. I used to write
> > about works and experimental "moving images" quite a bit and now I
> > feel that I simply use Frameworks (albeit rarely) to advertise my
> > screenings, ask technical questions, crack jokes, etc. I think I
> > sometimes forget how helpful this forum once was to someone who had
> > just seen experimental works and wanted to know more (wow- seven
> > years ago).
> >
> > I think part of the problem is this: http://
> >
> >
> > When I first started this thing, I would sometimes cross-post my
> > blogs on Frameworks (I think one of my Brakhage screening
> > experiences was the last one I posted), but got discouraged because
> > these threads generated very little discussion (unless someone was
> > "correcting" me for falling outside of the increasingly (and
> > ironically) defined lines of "avant-garde"). Moreover, sometimes I
> > feel like summing myself up in a picture or a video clip (or
> > talking about Russian rocket bodies falling out of the sky). I
> > also enjoy the random wanderers. So I migrated to blogging and and
> > became passive on Frameworks.
> >
> > Perhaps if a few of us started actually discussing experimental
> > works again (and some people do, I might add, they just get
> > buried), this list could balance itself out a little better. I
> > think some "vs." chatter is okay, but honestly, I can bash
> > Hollywood or politicians on almost any forum. I'll never forget
> > the day I met someone in New York whose eyes got big as she
> > realized, "YOU'RE Captain P.J.!?" People do read those posts, too!
> >
> > Hopefully,
> > Courtney
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.