Re: [Frameworks] Film and video

From: Beth Capper <>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 00:20:30 -0500

It came off as admonishing. It has the ring of "women, know your limits!"
You kinda have to "laugh out loud" at such things.
Women are breaking down the door and have been for a long time. They are
also creating their own spaces. Maybe where they don't get told to chill out
for having an opinion. This is kinda disconnected from whether I agree or
disagree about the initial comment about Jud's remarks. And, both men and
women have a role to play in changing the environment of a scene, a listserv
or whatever else.

Solution: you could have said, in a bit less of a sarcastic way, I'm not
sure I think Jud intended to create an exhaustive list.. he was just bashing
out some names. Or something to that effect.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:01 PM, David Tetzlaff <> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Beth Capper <>wrote:
>> Chill, ladies? LOL, for real?
> "I just did it for the Lulz!"
> Yeah, for real.
> What term would you have preferred? "Chill, peeps!"?
> Honestly, I didn't think 'ladies' was offensive, as I think of the pairing
> 'ladies and gentlemen' and I don't think of 'gentlemen' as disrespectful.
> Perhaps it comes off a bit sarcastic, using a more formal term in an
> informal setting, but again I was just tapping out a quick reply and not
> laboring over my words. I am, of course, totally aware of the fact that I
> have written Frameworks posts that caused other members of the list to tell
> me to chill, so I am not presenting myself as any sort of authority or
> master-of-the-chill or anything. I just think the responses to Yalkut were
> off-point.
> Seriously, if anybody has (non-facetious and non-snarky) suggestions for
> better terminology to apply, let me know. If its a problem, I'd appreciate
> help finding a solution.
> Nevertheless, my reaction to the students who stay away from the list
> because it's a 'boys club' is to call 'bullshit.' Get some confidence in
> yourself as a person and speak your piece because no one is going to do it
> for you. Frameworks is what its members make it, and I for one would welcome
> discussions of women in experimental film, or gender issues in experimental
> work, or any such stuff. Let's chat about (the fabulous) Laura Mulvey:
> 'Riddles of the Sphinx' and 'AMY!' How do you think Maya Deren or Carolee
> Schneeman or Abigail Child (just to name 3 of a much longer list) would
> react to that 'boys club' line? I'm thinking they'd say, 'That's right. It
> is a boys club, which is why YOU have to break down the door."
> Or simply direct them to the current exchange between Fred Camper and Anna
> Biller. I might disagree with Anna, but this is supposed to be a
> _discussion_ list, and she does not shy away from dialog and argument,,
> taking time to write out serious posts, standing her ground and deferring to
> no one. She's the Buffy of Frameworks ;-) ! I mean, if your response to
> loud-talking guys is to shy away into the corner, you're just doing
> patriarchy's job, having absorbed the disciplinary episteme or whatever
> Foucault would say (I'd reference Irigaray if I understood anything she's
> said, which I don't...) Okay, Kathleen Hanna I do understand, so show those
> kids some Sadie Benning pieces and Le Tigre videos and bade them kick some
> ass.
> _______________________________________________
> FrameWorks mailing list

FrameWorks mailing list
Received on Thu Aug 25 2011 - 22:21:27 CDT