Re: Stan Brakhage Copyrights _Experimental sound-art

From: Myron Ort (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Oct 19 2009 - 11:18:11 PDT

After diligently composing the music to the specific Brakhage film,
then present the same music with a dozen or more randomly chosen
other films and evaluate audience reactions.
Then choose a couple dozen or more randomly chosen pieces of music to
play with the Brakhage film, and evaluate accordingly.

In fact, take from all the films ever made, and experiment with
randomly matching with all the films ever made. There's a thesis!

Bet you will have many revelations there.

Myron Ort

On Oct 19, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Robert Schaller wrote:

> I was also thinking of responding to this, rather less harshly than
> Tony
> did, but only because I think that a musical commentary on a visual
> work
> is potentially interesting at least as an academic project. We all
> accept
> that critics can and should write about works, and must acknowledge
> that
> their writings don't fully make sence without actually reading or
> watching
> or listening to the work they are writing about. Imagine that
> instead of
> the critic writing words, the critic writes a musical score. The
> musical
> score could them stand on its own, like the program music from the
> 19th
> century that was written about something but then is listened to
> without
> the hearer having any access to what inspired the music, which
> leads to
> the first suggestion that I had, which is: be inspired by Dog Star
> Man,
> and even let that inspiration guide your composition, but then let the
> music stand on its own.
> But then, if the music is indeed commentary, and the commentary makes
> specific reference to the film, wouldn't it be much more clear to
> play the
> film with the music, so that those refernces are visible?
> It seems to me that non-verbal commentary or critcism ought not be
> disallowed as a field, and that logically its full exigesis would
> want the
> playing of both works at once. But maybe here it is important to
> ask a
> question of intent: IS the proposed music really a serious attempt at
> criticism or comentary? Or is it, as Tony says, just riding on
> Brakhage's
> back?
> Unless your intent really is to elucidate and explore the
> musicality of
> Stan's work, an investigation that I will admit to having an
> interest in
> -- indeed, the question of in what way exactly are visual and audial
> musics related strikes me as worth exploring, and music may be a good
> language through which to make such an exploration -- unless such
> exploration really is the work's intent, why not just write a seperate
> work? Pull out whatever musical analogies you find in Brakhage's
> film,
> but use them to write your own music, without pretending that your
> work is
> in any way a collaboration with Stan Brakhage. The art world is
> full of
> works that quote from or elaborate on ideas atributed to other
> artists/poets/writers/composers/filmakers, and some of the
> resulting works
> are themselves great works. But those that succeed are less quotation
> than reworking and new direction.
> Maybe the question is between quotation and plagerism. Playing a
> whole
> film as a quotation seems potentially rather more like plagerism.
> I think
> that in embarking on any such project, ones aims and motivations
> need to
> be carefully worked out.
>> Hi Peiman-------
>> This is such a misbegotten project that I hardly know where to
>> begin. If
>> as you
>> say you are actually a PhD student (of something), and this is
>> "part of my
>> research/creative interest in transmodality (multi sensual
>> perception) of
>> musical
>> experience, particularly with regard to the creation of musical
>> space" and
>> "part
>> of my composition portfolio, and discussed in my thesis", your
>> project
>> certainly
>> impugns the credentials or advisement capabilities of your thesis
>> adviser.
>> Riding this jejune project on Brakhage's back does no credit to
>> either of
>> you.
>> --------------t0ny
>> On Sat 10/17/09 9:21 AM , Peiman Khosravi
>> email suppressed sent:
>>> Dear All,
>>> This is my first post here so apologies if this is not the place for
>>> it.
>>> I am a PhD student at City University London, focusing my
>>> research and
>>> practice in studio based Electroacoustic music composition. At the
>>> moment I am exploring audio/visual relationships as part of my
>>> research/creative interest in transmodality (multi sensual
>>> perception)
>>> of musical experience, particularly with regard to the creation of
>>> musical space. As a result I am interested in creating an acoustic
>>> counterpart to part II of Brakhage's "Dog Star Man". Once
>>> completed this will be part of my composition portfolio, and
>>> discussed
>>> in my
>>> thesis. It may also be played in presentations/concerts.
>>> This will not be a conventional soundtrack, nor does it intend to be
>>> in anyway representative of -or remain true to- Brakhage's original
>>> work, which I understand and agree that should be watched in
>>> silence.
>>> The project will be my attempt to create a new work born out of a
>>> network of audio/visual relationships. Naturally this will
>>> reinterpret
>>> the original film, acoustically magnifying certain visual aspects
>>> that
>>> are formally dominant in my experience of the work.
>>> As it happens I have come to realize that Brakhage is one of the
>>> most
>>> "musical" filmmakers and working with his films would be like re-
>>> interpreting a piece of Bach: the work already contains and
>>> represents
>>> a very pure form of musical thinking. For this reason it will no
>>> doubt
>>> be a challenge and may prove impossible for me to complete, or
>>> arouse
>>> other's criticism. However, I cannot avoid a challenge when I see
>>> one!
>>> In short I am writing here with two questions:
>>> 1- Could someone please clarify for me the issue of copyrights with
>>> Brakhage's works and point me to the right direction for getting
>>> permissions for this project.
>>> 2- Any ideas and suggestions are more than welcomed... as I am not a
>>> filmmaker your ideas will for sure be very helpful to me.
>>> Many thanks in advance.
>>> Best,
>>> Peiman
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <(address suppressed)
>>> om>.
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.