Re: Stan Brakhage Copyrights _Experimental sound-art

From: peiman khosravi (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Oct 19 2009 - 13:44:23 PDT

A very interesting idea. I shall certainly try this.

Many thanks,


2009/10/19 Myron Ort <email suppressed>

> After diligently composing the music to the specific Brakhage film, then
> present the same music with a dozen or more randomly chosen other films and
> evaluate audience reactions.
> Then choose a couple dozen or more randomly chosen pieces of music to play
> with the Brakhage film, and evaluate accordingly.
> In fact, take from all the films ever made, and experiment with randomly
> matching with all the films ever made. There's a thesis!
> Bet you will have many revelations there.
> Myron Ort
> On Oct 19, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Robert Schaller wrote:
> I was also thinking of responding to this, rather less harshly than Tony
>> did, but only because I think that a musical commentary on a visual work
>> is potentially interesting at least as an academic project. We all accept
>> that critics can and should write about works, and must acknowledge that
>> their writings don't fully make sence without actually reading or watching
>> or listening to the work they are writing about. Imagine that instead of
>> the critic writing words, the critic writes a musical score. The musical
>> score could them stand on its own, like the program music from the 19th
>> century that was written about something but then is listened to without
>> the hearer having any access to what inspired the music, which leads to
>> the first suggestion that I had, which is: be inspired by Dog Star Man,
>> and even let that inspiration guide your composition, but then let the
>> music stand on its own.
>> But then, if the music is indeed commentary, and the commentary makes
>> specific reference to the film, wouldn't it be much more clear to play the
>> film with the music, so that those refernces are visible?
>> It seems to me that non-verbal commentary or critcism ought not be
>> disallowed as a field, and that logically its full exigesis would want the
>> playing of both works at once. But maybe here it is important to ask a
>> question of intent: IS the proposed music really a serious attempt at
>> criticism or comentary? Or is it, as Tony says, just riding on Brakhage's
>> back?
>> Unless your intent really is to elucidate and explore the musicality of
>> Stan's work, an investigation that I will admit to having an interest in
>> -- indeed, the question of in what way exactly are visual and audial
>> musics related strikes me as worth exploring, and music may be a good
>> language through which to make such an exploration -- unless such
>> exploration really is the work's intent, why not just write a seperate
>> work? Pull out whatever musical analogies you find in Brakhage's film,
>> but use them to write your own music, without pretending that your work is
>> in any way a collaboration with Stan Brakhage. The art world is full of
>> works that quote from or elaborate on ideas atributed to other
>> artists/poets/writers/composers/filmakers, and some of the resulting works
>> are themselves great works. But those that succeed are less quotation
>> than reworking and new direction.
>> Maybe the question is between quotation and plagerism. Playing a whole
>> film as a quotation seems potentially rather more like plagerism. I think
>> that in embarking on any such project, ones aims and motivations need to
>> be carefully worked out.
>> Hi Peiman-------
>>> This is such a misbegotten project that I hardly know where to begin. If
>>> as you
>>> say you are actually a PhD student (of something), and this is "part of
>>> my
>>> research/creative interest in transmodality (multi sensual perception) of
>>> musical
>>> experience, particularly with regard to the creation of musical space"
>>> and
>>> "part
>>> of my composition portfolio, and discussed in my thesis", your project
>>> certainly
>>> impugns the credentials or advisement capabilities of your thesis
>>> adviser.
>>> Riding this jejune project on Brakhage's back does no credit to either of
>>> you.
>>> --------------t0ny
>>> On Sat 10/17/09 9:21 AM , Peiman Khosravi (address suppressed):
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> This is my first post here so apologies if this is not the place for
>>>> it.
>>>> I am a PhD student at City University London, focusing my research and
>>>> practice in studio based Electroacoustic music composition. At the
>>>> moment I am exploring audio/visual relationships as part of my
>>>> research/creative interest in transmodality (multi sensual perception)
>>>> of musical experience, particularly with regard to the creation of
>>>> musical space. As a result I am interested in creating an acoustic
>>>> counterpart to part II of Brakhage's "Dog Star Man". Once
>>>> completed this will be part of my composition portfolio, and discussed
>>>> in my
>>>> thesis. It may also be played in presentations/concerts.
>>>> This will not be a conventional soundtrack, nor does it intend to be
>>>> in anyway representative of -or remain true to- Brakhage's original
>>>> work, which I understand and agree that should be watched in silence.
>>>> The project will be my attempt to create a new work born out of a
>>>> network of audio/visual relationships. Naturally this will reinterpret
>>>> the original film, acoustically magnifying certain visual aspects that
>>>> are formally dominant in my experience of the work.
>>>> As it happens I have come to realize that Brakhage is one of the most
>>>> "musical" filmmakers and working with his films would be like re-
>>>> interpreting a piece of Bach: the work already contains and represents
>>>> a very pure form of musical thinking. For this reason it will no doubt
>>>> be a challenge and may prove impossible for me to complete, or arouse
>>>> other's criticism. However, I cannot avoid a challenge when I see one!
>>>> In short I am writing here with two questions:
>>>> 1- Could someone please clarify for me the issue of copyrights with
>>>> Brakhage's works and point me to the right direction for getting
>>>> permissions for this project.
>>>> 2- Any ideas and suggestions are more than welcomed... as I am not a
>>>> filmmaker your ideas will for sure be very helpful to me.
>>>> Many thanks in advance.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Peiman
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <(address suppressed)
>>>> om>.
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.