Re: FrameWorks, Obama, Satantango, politics, etc.

From: Fred Davidson (email suppressed)
Date: Tue Sep 09 2008 - 08:09:19 PDT

     I thought that maybe we had got rid of you Freya. No such luck
huh? I thought that maybe you had found a way off the list.
Santantango didn't do it for you? Nothing else did either? Huh? I
think you're a guy you know. I think you are guy and that's why you
won't tell me how old you are. I think that's why you won't tell me
how old you are when I try to put the make on you. You are some kind
of queer guy masquerading as a girl. Aren't you Freya? Instead of
posting to this list why don't you get a job as a two faced dancer
like Didik Nini Thowok aka Didik Hadi Prayitno and let out your
creative juices that way?* Or if that don't work for you why don't you
go defenestrate yourself? The composer Richard Maxfield did you know.
Or maybe you don't know. He did it the heavy-handed way. He was a
friend of La Monte Young. You've heard of La Monte Young, haven't you
Freya? Is anybody here a friend of La Monte Young? How about you Ton'?
Have you ever heard of La Monte Young Anthony?



*Barbarians, Are You A Boy Or Are You A Girl, prod. Gene Schwartz, New
York, SP-2033, 1966.

On Sep 9, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Freya wrote:

> Sorry I've not had a chance to write back before but I've been
> dealing with a situation where virtually every computer based piece
> of equipment in my house decided to malfunction simultaneously and
> in spectacular ways, including the failure of my network connection,
> a strange sort of field collapse that changed all the colours on my
> monitor to be almost the negative of normal and the failure of the
> video editing computer to boot properly amongst other stuff. This
> morning everything has decided to work again!??? Anyway I've not had
> time to post because of dealing with stuff.
> I knew you all wanted to know that! ;)
> Fred Camper! It is good to see you posting and participating here
> again, and I hope we will see more of it!
> I'm sure it was you who has spoken of the signal to noise ratio here
> in the past. I felt it was a realy good analogy. In sound it's often
> found that you can't hear the background noise and hiss so easily
> when there is more actual music or content being transmitted over
> the system.
> So to you, and anyone else here who feels slightly similar I would
> say "be the change you want to see!". It's up to YOU to talk and
> discuss intelligent things and to invite others to do the same. To
> start the dialogue you would like to see and engage in that
> conversation yourself instead of engaging in the nonsense and trivia
> that other people may be posting. As you yourself have implied, you
> have lots of knowledge on this subject and are well informed in the
> matters. So come here and share that knowledge instead of waiting
> for someone else to give you more. By sharing knowledge you create
> more well informed people who might then have a better ability to
> offer the kind of dialogue you desire.
> Of course this isn't going to stop people who are plain
> intrinsically irritating from being intrinsically irritating, they
> are what they are and I guess learning to ignore those people or get
> used to their weirdness and foibles is part of the way things are in
> life.
> In reply to your post Fred, here are some more things I thought
> might be worth thinking about in a similar vein.
>> I prefer to read decently written posts that are well
>> informed. Having
>> seen "Satantango" twice, complete, and on film, I
>> don't need to read a
>> post from someone who has seen an hour or so of it on
>> video. What's
>> great about FrameWorks is that so many people here have
>> specialized
>> knowledge of various aspects of experimental cinema. What
> That may be true but have you stopped to think that maybe they need
> to read YOUR posting on what you think about Satantango? You have
> been lucky enough to see the film TWICE on a real film print. Thats
> actually a rare opportunity and you are in a privelaged position in
> that way. When someone posts saying that they have barely seen the
> film, it's actually kind of an invitation for those with greater
> knowledge to step in and to say why they love it, or why it's
> actually important. Or why they hate it and find it to be 7 hours of
> tedium or whatever. It's an invitation for a well informed view,
> whatever perspective they may have on it. All you have told us is
> you have seen it. I'm guessing you liked it as you watched it twice
> unless you like to torture yourself or were confused about it the
> first time but beyond that you have said little about it. In fact
> I've actually said more about the film than you have which is a very
> sorry state of affairs!
>> wrecks the
>> list is people posting opinions about topics they don't
>> know much about,
> The sad truth is that experimental film is a topic about which there
> is limited knowledge in circulation, so there will be many people
> posting to some extent about topics they don't know much about. In
> fact surely that is an important role of the list here, to share
> knowledge? For myself I think it would be a far lesser list if it
> was entirely populated by people who knew everything about
> experimental film and slapped eaxh other on the back about how
> knowledgable they were and treated it as an exclusive private
> members club full of those in the know! Of course maybe it is a bit
> too much in the other direction right now, but I'm sorry to have to
> say that this is a symptom of the state of experimental film these
> days. Even those with a real and genuine intrest of the subject have
> limited knowledge.
> The list essentially just reflects the state of things with
> experimental film.
> If you aren't happy with that situation, it is up to you to try and
> change it, you have the knowledge to share with people and
> presumably there are others on this list who also have this
> knowledge as you speak of having had great discussions here nearly
> 10 years ago. If you start the kind of discussions you would like to
> see then I'm sure you will get more of these postings in return.
> There are definitely people still making postings closer to what you
> describe such as some of the threads on film restoration which are
> often filled with all kinds of historical, and technical facts and
> just plain intresting trivia.
>> plus personal trivia. If everyone remembered that a
> To a certain extent I disagree strongly with you here. I actually
> like a little of the trivia of peoples lives or that people express
> things about themselves, as opposed to things being cold and dry,
> just as I lean more in the direction of what Stan Brakhage described
> as personal cinema as opposed to the concerns of materialist film
> etc. The incidental trivia that people drop by, make the people more
> real to me and I have a love of people and their different lives
> perspectives and foibles. I smile when I see the various characters
> on this list doing their certain things or expressing their
> perspectives that they are especially caught up in. I'm sure we are
> all aware of various characters on the list and are often "heres so
> and so again doing their thing". In fact I'm sure it's certain
> people on this list who especially annoy you and you could easily
> filter these people out of your inbox because it will often be the
> same people doing those things! ;)
> You could create a folder called annoying, a bit like the spam
> folder that most people have in their mail, only for a slightly
> different purpose.
> If it helps you to sympathise at all, I annoy myself to some extent
> too.
> Not the trivia but the slightly strange compulsion to turn
> everything into some strange and occasionaly boring narrative. I
> think it might be something to do with growing up with creative
> writing as a form of expression and communication as a child, or
> maybe it's some kind of perspective on life as a series of stories.
> Sometimes I'm not aware that I'm doing it at all, other times I'm
> painfully aware and somewhat annoyed by it and asking myself "why am
> I doing this?". *shrug* Life is full of learning things about
> yourself and others.
> There are also OTOH times when I'm okay with the fact I do that
> tho! :)
> Looking forward to more well informed, knowledgeable and intelligent
> posts from you Fred.
> Share the knowledge.
> love
> Freya
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.