Re: protest nyc's proposed film and photo law Thurs Aug 2 Union Sq

From: Jim Carlile (email suppressed)
Date: Sat Aug 04 2007 - 17:19:10 PDT

>I want to shoot a stream of rain water in the gutter all day from sunrise
till sundown.
>do i get a permit for "the next rainy day, on the corner of Bowery and
2nd?" Come on, it's a stupid regulation.


Do you realize that this makes absolutely no sense?

>As an aside, I'm intrested in the idea that 5 people
>or above with a tripod engaging in any activity need a
>I'm just really curious what they think 5 or more
>people with a tripod are going to get up to!
They get in THE WAY!
>It's great to have a dissenting view so that the
>issues can be discussed properly and I love the fact
>that you don't feel scared to voice your opinion. That
>is what we have here in England, a lot of frightened
>young people who won't say anything or ask questions.
>It makes me sooooo sad. You can see it in the lecture
>theatres but it ends up everywhere. It gets to the
>stage that people have a preety good idea that what is
>happening is wrong but don't want to rock the boat, so
>stay silent. Lately I've grown to really hate the fear
>and the silence.
I find it baffling that someone from Britain would sympathize with critics
of these rules. They are so incredibly generous compared with the state of
things around London that it doesn't make any sense but to support most of them.
If the desired alternative is no rules, that's not going to happen, and it's
a bad idea anyway.
When people who don't like your lack of rules end up blocking your public
activity, what rules are you going to apply to deal with their interference? Or
do rules of behavior and deportment only apply to non-artists?
What's absolutely incredible about this thread is not just the naivete, but
the absolute self-centeredness of artists here. Not everything is a free
speech issue. If you guys really had ganas you'd be out there surreptitiously
filming no matter what, just like the old days, instead of whining about things.
And you wouldn't complain about getting caught, you'd just move on.

>admire your lone
>struggle on the frameworks list. You've given many
>of us the
>opportunity to mouth off on this topic which might
>otherwise have
> died.)

Yes it's been quite positive as it's allowed everyone
to put their arguments.
I sympathise also with the lone struggle buisness,
over here in the cinema of exclusion I'm sure it would
kind of all be the other way around, or in the post
Thatcher society in general in fact.

You might not admit it to yourself Jim but I would
guess that even you have learnt all kinds of things
from the discussion, as have those with the opposing
viewpoints. In fact we probably aren't even aware of
the things we have learnt through actually discussing
them and having someone to question the ideas.

So thankyou Jim.

>I'm just shocked that you guys in NYC don't realize
>that not only are the filming rules being
>liberalized, but that no one else is getting as good
>a deal as you are.

It almost sounds like you are almost feeling jealous
Jim. ;)

Maybe you should get together with some friends and
campaign to get as good a deal as NYC where you live!

Although I do understand that some places are more
conservative than others and that it might be hard to
do that. Actually right now I know that only too well!

I'm not sure that the rules are being liberalized
though. I thought that the point was that at the
moment there aren't any specific rules exactly.

>Trust me guys, from someone who lives where the rules
>are strict: these rules ain't bad at all. And if you
>are hoping for a complete reprieve from ANY filming
>rules, get ready for a disappointment.

Well life is full of disappointments! Here in the U.K.
people support all kinds of political parties knowing
they will never come to power, it's just what they
believe in. It's unlikely that society is going to be
free of racism, homophobia, sexism etc etc etc any
time soon either but people still struggle towards
that goal because it is what they believe is right.
For myself a lot of things in life aren't about
winning or losing, it's okay to go into things knowing
you may well lose. It's about what's right and
struggling to try and achieve something better,
fighting to make a better world.

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and seeing the
struggle for freedoms in New York. It's wonderful. I'm
a little suprised when people argue for less freedom.
I've been thinking a lot lately about how it's called
free-dom, when actually the price can be really high.
I guess there is some extent to which it is worth
considering the potential cost before you get involved
in something although I guess the cost can be hidden
and you don't find out till you start paying for it.
In this case it all just seems really positive however
and there are so many people fighting to make things
better, to me it seems wonderful.

I say if there is a chance to get more freedom, then
go for it! If there is a chance to keep freedoms then
fight for them, because the cost to get them back
later will be even higher.

> I don't know of any other city that would allow
>this, for ANY length of time. Jim, I don't know how
>else to put this, but so what? You're not saying that
>this is proof it's the right thing to do, are you?
>You keep saying it's better than other cities, but
>what if it's basically the wrong thing to do and
>everyone does it? That happens, right?

There is a strange thing in societys that people often
seem to think that because everyone is doing/saying
something then it must be right. I guess it's some
idea that there has been a collective decision and
that all those people must have come to the same
decision so that means more people have considered it
and come to the same conclusion, however sometimes
people havn't really considered anything, they have
just gone along with stuff without really thinking, or
may have had various nebulous reasons to go along with
something. Peoples idea of reality can be shaped in
this way but as the saying goes "if a thousand people
say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing".

I know tripods can also be used by surveyors (who
usually take far longer than 30 minutes, whatever it
is they are up to), and of course for all kinds of
photography etc but I'm not sure about other uses.

Maybe there is a whole special thing about tripods I'm
not aware of and people have tripod partys and stuff.



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