From: Cari Machet (email suppressed)
Date: Sat Aug 26 2006 - 08:26:49 PDT
i don't get it how is adam swinging you?
is it that u don't feel/think it is ok for festivals as well as series
to charge a submission fee?
that it is double speak to not hold festivals to the same standard?
for the record anthology owns it's building
(doesn't pay rent)
bought it fr: the city (if my memory serves) long ago for a song
but they do pay taxes on the property - i assume
i believe millennium owns it's building as well
On 8/26/06, Freya <email suppressed> wrote:
> > Perhaps they did not used to charge a submission
> > fee? If not, it
> > would be interesting to know when and why it
> > changed. I wonder if it
> > could be related to them accepting submissions
> > through WAB.
> > Withoutabox is very fee oriented and require a large
> > fee ($500 set-up
> > fee up front) to list a series or festival and set
> > up online submission.
> I have to say that Adam and a couple of other people
> are really starting to swing me on this issue.
> You might think I might be in favour of withoutabox as
> I hate filling in all the different festival forms
> which often ask the same boring questions, and often
> stop me from entering any festivals. Also being able
> to send a load of entries off at once would help me
> get my work out in those quiet patches between being
> seriously ill and people throwing bricks at my windows
> etc. However...
> Withoutabox is a very, very horrible entity and
> deserves no place in the world of experimental film
> and video. The ideas behined it are the atithesis of
> what experimental film and video are supposed to be
> about. Withoutabox is essentially a spam system so
> that you can spam festivals with your film. Why any
> festival would want that I'm not entirely sure but
> then I guess they can just charge fees to keep the
> numbers down a bit. Maybe it's something the bean
> counters in larger organisations find appealing.
> This is very much the Hollywood world of mass market
> films with mass market mail out to festivals.
> This in itself would be very bad and a reason to not
> have withoutabox around, but actually, it's much worse
> than that, much, much worse than that.
> Withoutabox claims to not charge any fees, neither to
> the filmakers nor to the festivals! There isn't the
> setup fee that Adam talks about it's all FREE, FREE,
> FREE (in capital letters as the subject lines of spam
> often are). This is technically true I suppose, but
> the claim is somewhat akin to Hitler claiming that he
> never actually killed anyone in the Holocaust.
> Withoutabox don't themselves charge the filmmakers
> anything, and they don't charge the festivals upfront
> fees. However, they do charge the festivals 10% on
> every submission they receive. So what about the
> festivals that have no entry fees, surely 10% of
> nothing is nothing right? Well you see there are no
> festivals with no entry fees because withoutabox sets
> a minimum entry fee on all festivals etc of $5.
> So withoutabox charges no fees to the filmakers, but
> they force festivals who join to do so. The festivals
> in turn will no doubt say that they had to charge an
> entry fee. They are just following orders.
> It's actually no big deal to the festivals at all
> mostly, it just means they increase their submission
> fees by 10% and get invoiced by withoutabox every so
> Obviously to the filmmakers it is different but then
> they are just little people.
> The idea that any festival or series or screening in
> the experimental film world would be using withoutabox
> is preety horrifying and would be an indication that
> the experimental film and video world has become
> severely rotten. If figures like Jonas Mekas were in
> ***ANY WAY*** involved well....
> Anthology film archives should be having NOTHING to do
> with any organisation that uses withoutabox.
> Withoutabox is a monopoly central system of control
> for festivals and filmmakers. It is fundamentally
> counter revolutionary. There must surely be other ways
> that the Anthology film archives can raise money, that
> having any kind of connection with something so
> Paying the rent is all well and fine but at the end of
> the day, how far are you prepared to go to pay the
> rent? If in doing so you become the exact oposite of
> everything you felt you believed in then perhaps it is
> better to call it a day. I know how hard a decision
> that is and it is one I constantly hold off myself but
> it is one that must be kept in mind. Often there are
> other possibilities beyond selling yourself, your
> friends and your contemparies down the river.
> If you see withoutabox listed for a festival, then you
> know that festival cares little for you and your film
> or for ANY filmmakers. It has become a festival run by
> beancounters and pod people.
> Basically withoutabox is very, very bad and horrid.
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.