From: owen (email suppressed)
Date: Sat Mar 11 2006 - 11:14:00 PST
Then maybe we should charge more for tickets to avant garde
experimental screenings.
Exclusive screenings of rarely seen works. Perhaps hundreds, no
thousands of dollars per seat.
Hmm, maybe this sadism stuff can be satisfying. Tony, lets talk about
this idea.
If the MoMA can charge a Dada-like 20 dollars (Kids under 16 enter
free, that's good at least) for admission to it's
monstrous hall of concrete death, why not? Mine screenings have
mostly been free, and I've always lost money with The Electrical
Retrospectacle.
owen
On Mar 11, 2006, at 11:46 AM, Tony Conrad wrote:
> It is worth bearing in mind that the masochistic tropism of audience
> members, who in their capacity as audience members submit to the film,
> induces a (mild) form of social "sadism" among filmmakers that--albeit
> often unconscious--is more focused in its authoritarian aspects than
> is the killer-sadism of fishing.
>
> --------t0ny
>
>
> Quoting field <email suppressed>:
>
>> the big difference
>>
>>
>> fishing is not about communication
>>
>> its not about relating to others or transporting a
>> idea/message/feeling...
>>
>>
>>
>> but obviously you can do films just for himself and leave them in a
>> cabinet
>>
>> that's the artist right
>>
>>
>> patrick huber
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> --- "jarrod whaley." <email suppressed> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So you would argue that there's no difference between being an
>>>> experimental filmmaker and being a recreational fisherman, for
>>>> example?
>>>>
>>>> -->jarrod whaley.
>>>
>>> Wow, that's a giant leap in logic. Both are hobbies, yes, but one
>> is
>>> fishing and one is filmmaking. I would, however, argue that
>>> experimental filmmaking can be a very pleasuarble activity, and
>> like
>>> fishing, contains stretches of inactivity, anticipation,
>> frustration,
>>> and success.
>>>
>>> Every hobby (as well as every vocation) is unique. I know the
>> reasons
>>> I make film are different than the reasons I paint, make music,
>> play
>>> soccer, go hiking, read travel books, or cook desserts. What they
>> have
>>> in common is that I don't earn any income from them, I do them
>> because
>>> I enjoy them. The energy I put into each activity and the possible
>>> rewards are drastically different.
>>>
>>> -Jason Halprin
>>>
>>> --- "jarrod whaley." <email suppressed> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So you would argue that there's no difference between being an
>>>> experimental filmmaker and being a recreational fisherman, for
>>>> example?
>>>>
>>>> -->jarrod whaley.
>>>> filmmaker. videographer.
>>>> web designer. educator.
>>>> www.oakstreetfilms.com
>>>> www.shakingray.com
>>>> design.oakstreetfilms.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jason Halprin wrote:
>>>>>> From the Oxford American Dictionary:
>>>>>
>>>>> hobby - an occupation that a person does for pleasure, not as
>> his
>>>> main
>>>>> business
>>>>>
>>>>> I never insuated that dedicating your life and energy to
>> something
>>>> that
>>>>> is not financially rewarding does cannot have serious rewards.
>> I
>>>> just
>>>>> mean that teaching, currating, working in a post house, working
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>> film/television industry, and other jobs that many on this list
>> do
>>>> are
>>>>> not making a living from your filmmaking. They are working a
>> job,
>>>> your
>>>>> filmmaking is supported by this other job.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally find it insulting that the extremely hard work
>> that
>>>> some
>>>>> people have put in to create venues and organizations that
>> promote
>>>> A/G
>>>>> work is so easily dismissed as self-serving.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Jason Halprin
>>>>>
>>>>> --- "jarrod whaley." <email suppressed> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason Halprin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the basic facts that exists for many A/G film and
>> video
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> makers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (in the US and elsewhere, though not everywhere) is that
>> they
>>>> will
>>>>>>> never recoup the costs that are associated with their work,
>> let
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> alone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> turn it into a full-time profession. As such it is more
>>>> accuratley
>>>>>>> described as a hobby, and hobbies are money-losing ventures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baloney. One might not accumulate riches on par with the
>> Sultan of
>>>>
>>>>>> Brunei, but many "underground" or "avant-garde" filmmakers can
>> and
>>>> do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> scratch out a meager existence. It just takes a little
>> creativity,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the willingness to realize that good work doesn't have to cost
>> a
>>>>>> penny,
>>>>>> if necessary, to make.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find this "hobby" business of yours very insulting.
>> Dedicating
>>>>>> one's
>>>>>> life and energy to an often financially unrewarding (but
>> often
>>>>>> financially "livable") form of creativity is not on the same
>> level
>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> engagement and/or social worth as collecting Star Wars action
>>>> figures
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> building model planes. Be careful with that glue, it's
>> dangerous
>>>>>> stuff,
>>>>>> you know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are against paying fees, look for free festivals. Or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> volunteer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for one so that your labor may bring down the fees for that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> festival.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Write the grant proposals, talk to donors, make press
>> releases,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> pass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> out flyers, get on the radio, do whatever it takes. It is
>>>> already
>>>>>>> difficult for most of us the share our work with people we
>> don't
>>>>>>> personally know, so if festivals are not a necessity, they
>> are a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> luxury
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe is worth paying for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you think it's worth paying for someone to potentially
>> throw
>>>> your
>>>>>> work away and never tell you, then go ahead. Wipe your ass
>> with
>>>> $100
>>>>>> bills, for all I care. I just happen to find Charmin to be
>> much
>>>> more
>>>>>> cost efficient, not to mention less irritating to my
>> sensitive
>>>> bits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -->jarrod whaley.
>>>>>> filmmaker. videographer.
>>>>>> web designer. educator.
>>>>>> www.oakstreetfilms.com
>>>>>> www.shakingray.com
>>>>>> design.oakstreetfilms.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
>> <email suppressed>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.