Re: [Frameworks] Quo Vadis Celluloid?

From: Myron Ort <>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 17:43:38 -0700

Yes, I do understand that reversing an A-wind /B-wind is a trivial
matter in fcp.
I had not thought of that at the time of the telecine transfer.



Excellent observation! You get the "Argumentative Critics Award" lol.
You pretty much got it.
True, projecting uncut double 8mm was (and is) an obvious cliche
that I never really liked partly because the quartered frame lines
were so messy looking, depending on how clean the gate was, and
besides compositionally "quartering" is something to be avoided.
BTW, if one used the quartered image clich technique, one needed to
remember to shoot the second half of the 8mm roll upside down if one
wanted everything to be right side up.
(There are many cases where upside down shooting is the secret
technique, ah the wonderful special effects of double sprocket film
stock. Remember Sidney Peterson....?) and Cocteau for that matter,
what a trickster he was among so many other things.....
So correct, with my approach, one sees alternating quadrants 1 and 4
on one side and on the other side quadrants 2 and 3, If one
anticipated this, one could shoot original whole (16mm=double 8mm)
frames that would perhaps be predictably more interesting after the

You realize that after slitting this double 8mm original (shot in a
16mm camera), one ends up with an A-wind roll and a B-wind roll
because there is only one set of sprocket holes on a side. In this
case I had to telecine one of the rolls through the emulsion to get
the L/R reading correct (consistent) so that when put side by side
there would be the mysterious continuity and simultaneous camera
movement. It was a pleasant surprise how effective the multi-screen
technique turned out to be, and could be yet for consequent projects.

This inherent "interchangeability" between 16mm and 8mm is why I did
and still do like regular 8mm.

There is yet one more consequence that we need to mention in this
arena and that is the half-split (horizontal) result of showing
double 8mm (shot as 16mm) out of sync by one sprocket. I have
utilized this approach as well and it can be seen in a mid- 60s short
film I made "Bridge" which is now contained in a longer work "Eikono
Klastes --Chapter III " which I will be making available shortly.

Myron Ort

On Aug 27, 2011, at 12:53 PM, John McAndrew wrote:

> Myron,
> Just a wild guess (I work more in video than film, so I could be
> way off) but it looks like the flicker sequence of two frames are
> part of the same "frame", only the second one is framed lower - is
> the overall frame processed as two images? 16mm split as if it was
> double 8mm, then projected as 8mm? If so, I've know people
> projecting uncut double 8mm as if it was 16 mm but not your way
> before - but like I've said, film's not my speciality!
> John
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Received on Sat Aug 27 2011 - 17:43:46 CDT