Re: [Frameworks] B&W innerneg

From: andrew lennox (email suppressed)
Date: Wed Nov 17 2010 - 13:10:19 PST

Hi Lyra,

Sam is right, if you process your plus-x with D-97 and dilute the working
solution (say 9:1 or more) and lengthen the development time that will help.

As far as what it will look like, I think you already suggested it in your first
email: increase in contrast and grain. i think it looks cool but it is a
specific look. i think you said you want to reproduce the original as close as
possible. you're gonna lose detail with every generation. 7302 is meant for
projection so it's gonna raise your contrast in the first generation and then
you want to use a camera stock and then print from that. that's two more
generations and the interneg would be a camera stock that is not meant to be
used for that purpose. im not saying dont do it, bc i do it if that is what i
am looking for and ive seen great results in other people's work. doing a small
test first is what i do. for me, running the job is the easy part, the real
work is the testing. even if you go with the plus-x as the interneg i would
still use 7366 as your master positive. it is so flat that it looks really
terrible but that is what you want at the intermediate stage; you want as flat
an image as possible until you get to the final release print stage (3302 in
your case). That print will give you back your contrast and the intermediate
stocks (7234 and 7366) will help reproduce tonality/details/grain throughout
generations. this is just the traditional way to do it, do tests and see what
works for you. yes, as far as i know sebastjan will sell you some 7366. i
appreciate that money is tight but plus-x is gold now so if it were me and i
could afford it then i would save my plus-x to shoot a new project. check with
sebastjan to see if he will sell some 7234. i think it is around the same price
per foot as double-x (and what plus-x used to cost) and if you can get around
the minimum buy from kodak by buying only what you need from sebastjan than so
much the better, right? i dont understand whether you have 300' of super 8 or
you think the 16mm blow up will yield 300' of 16mm? also, are you gonna
optically print every generation or just the first and then contact print the
interneg and release prints? please say the latter :) remember that you will
be magnifying the grain during the blow up of the first stage. and that you
have crossed processed the super 8 as neg which should mean you already have an
increase in grain and contrast. for future reference, the easiest approach in
terms of grain/contrast/generations, etc. is to process your super 8 as reversal
and then make your interneg on 7234 on the jk. but that's neither here nor
there now. anyway, maybe tmi, sorry. feel free to contact me at any point. it
is a long road but i think you will be glad to follow it when you see results
and possibilities. it's interesting that this direction can solely be about
technical reproduction or it can become a new creative direction in re-thinking
your original film material/aesthetic/concept. i wish you luck. and do hit up
sebastjan along the way. he does this work on a daily basis and is excited to
work with filmmakers. finally, at the very least, im glad you dont intend to
make the release prints on 3383. you could do a lot of hard work and the
results printing on that stock from a bw neg never look good from my experience.

From: Lyra Hill <email suppressed>
To: Experimental Film Discussion List <email suppressed>
Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 11:50:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] B&W innerneg

Yes, this is a blow up from super8 negative (actually Plus-x reversal developed
negative). I think I'm going to print to 7302 on the JK, then take it to an
internegative, and use that internegative to make multiple prints with optical
soundtracks, again on 7302. Seems as though this is the general best-quality

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Sam Wells <email suppressed> wrote:

You could have the PlusX developed to a lower gamma to cut back
>contrast build-up a bit; grain you'll have some as compared to an
>internegative or master pos stock, but... it could look good...
>Double X will certainly add a bunch of grain.
>Are you asking then, what you should print to on your JK ? (not quite
>clear to me the steps),
>this is a blow up from the Super8 negative source ?
>FrameWorks mailing list
>email suppressed

FrameWorks mailing list
email suppressed