From: Matt Helme (email suppressed)
Date: Fri Jul 30 2010 - 09:43:10 PDT
People who don't care about the audience usually won't get one.
From: Tony Conrad <email suppressed>
To: Experimental Film Discussion List <email suppressed>
Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 12:32:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Open letter to Jeff Kreines
On Fri 07/30/10 1:41 AM , Chuck Kleinhans email suppressed sent:
> On Jul 29, 2010, at 8:40 PM, Bernard Roddy wrote:
> "This is what distinguishes the artist from laymen (those susceptible
> to art): the latter reach the high point of their susceptibility when
> they receive; the former when they give - [. . .] The perspectives of
> these two states are opposite: to demand of the artist that he should
> practice the perspective of the audience (of the critic-) means to
> demand that he should impoverish himself and his creative power - "
> Nietzshe, entry 811 of Book III, Sect. IV, of "The Will to Power as
> So Bernie, you're saying that Jeff Kreines would be impoverished as
> an artist if he paid any attention to the audience? How exactly
> would you then edit a documentary film while doing so?
> Or are you trying to say something else: like trashing critics in
> general? or Scott Macdonald in particular?
> IF you answer this, are you then responding to a critic and facing
> your own loss of artist creds (and perhaps vital fluids)?
> I'll raise your Neitzche with an Oscar Wilde. Still in the game or
> gonna fold?
> Chuck Kleinhans
Iām not sure what Chuck is asking Bernie to do, but before they compare vital
fluids between Nietzsche and Wilde, letās see. Here Chuck is receiving, so he is
thinking that Bernie isā¦ wait; actually Bernie is receiving from Nietzsche. But
Nietzsche isnāt an artist, I suppose heās a critic. Nietzsche goes on (in the
entry quoted) to say, āIt is to the honor of an artist if he is unable to be a
criticāotherwise he is half and half, he is āmodern.ā" Nietzsche doesnāt think
that heās āmodernāābut I think Nietzsche is modern, and so are Bernie and Chuck.
On the other hand, it doesnāt seem that Nietzsche is doing them any honor as
artists, if they are being critics. But Bernie isnāt really receiving; heās
giving, and Chuck is receiving. Or Chuck was receiving at first, and now heās
giving, like me. I guess all of them are hermaphroditic; at least Nietzsche also
says āIt is the same here as with the difference between the sexes: one ought
to demand of the artist, who gives, that he should become a womanāthat he should
receive.ā So can anyone else untangle this?
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