From: Chris Kennedy (email suppressed)
Date: Fri Jun 04 2010 - 22:23:23 PDT
Hmm..
Jason, are you contending that the contributors have fairly narrow taste
(besides the obvious one of really liking experimental film)?
I did some calculations to try and see if thatıs true.
Both lists that were tabulated from votes (50 films and 25 emerging
filmmakers) stop at 7 votes apiece.
*(the top 50 filmmakers were not voted on. Rather they were compiled from
the number of films that were mentioned by each artist, so artists who made
a series of different films people liked seem to have a better shot at
crawling up that list).
With 46 contributors, that means that there could have been 2300 films
mentioned and 1150 emerging filmmakers.
For the top 50 films, the list you see represents 493 votes, which means
there were 1807 votes that didnıt make it on the list. So, if EVERY single
film that was mentioned that didnıt get on the list STILL got 6 votes, that
would mean there would be 301 films just lurking below the surface (which
does make me suspicious about why thereıs only eight films with 7 votes...
Were there more that were just edited out?). So, the potential is that there
was anywhere between 300 and 1800 films that got mentioned by the
contributors that didnıt make the list. And, on average, most contributors
only have 10 films that match the final list (I had 15. Nicole Brenezıs
list, which is available online and quite different in general, still had a
10 film overlap). So weıre perhaps not the squares it looks like.
As for the emerging filmmakers, the calculations come out to about half of
the above. 150 to 909 potential names, average overlap of 5 to 6 names per
contributors list.
I would contend that even if the pool of contributors changed quite
drastically, most of the change would happen in the lower end of the
spectrum (would be nice to get more European, Asian, Canadian or Chicagoan
names there) but it would be very difficult to ³unseat² Dorsky, Benning,
Jacobs, Klahr et al. (especially since those three in particular have so
many films to vote on). Any film that got more than 10 votes seems like a
pretty safe bet for a redo.
Of course, all of this could be used as a good argument NOT to make lists
like this. The results do seem a bit underwhelming. It doesnıt reflect all
the exciting films that were made in the last decade, but it is a ³look
back² at the ³avant-garde², so to speak.
But it seems not so much a conspiracy as much as it is probability at play.
Best,
Chris
On 6/4/10 10:39 PM, "Jason Halprin" <email suppressed> wrote:
>
> To me, the list of contributors seems to be the weirdest part of it all. Meant
> in no offense to the people on the list (who include good friends,
> acquaintances, professors, contacts through festival work, and programmers of
> my work), I can only ask the question: Really?
>
> This is exactly the sort of canonization that drives me crazy. Then again,
> what do I expect from an NYC poll?
>
> Jeeze, now I feel like a bitter old man.
>
> -Jason Halprin
>
> PS I encourage everyone on here to check out the work of Richard Myers, Dana
> Krumins, Michael Henderson, and countless others who seem lost to our small,
> but important sliver of the cultural spectrum.
>
>
> From: Roger Beebe <email suppressed>
> To: Experimental Film Discussion List <email suppressed>
> Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 2:20:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] weird!
>
> The (hand-selected) list of the 46 contributors is at the bottom of the page.
> Would be interesting to see what an open Frameworks poll yielded (although
> certainly now that History Has Been Written, the results might now follow this
> list more than they would've otherwise).
>
> ...
> R.
>
> On Jun 4, 2010, at 12:12 PM, Chris Lynn wrote:
>
>> > I guess I am out of the loop- but I never knew they were conducting such a
>> poll-Was it just for Film Comment readers and contributors? Or did they make
>> an announcement on Frameworks?
>> > just wondering-
>> >
>> > cl
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Roger Beebe <email suppressed> wrote:
>> >
>>> >> From: Roger Beebe <email suppressed>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] weird!
>>> >> To: "Experimental Film Discussion List" <email suppressed>
>>> >> Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 1:41 PM
>>> >> Pretty sure Tomonari Nishikawa still
>>> >> counts as Japanese, doesn't he? I know he was schooled
>>> >> in the U.S., but...
>>> >>
>>> >> (Not defending this list. Biting my tongue.)
>>> >> R.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Jim Flannery wrote:
>>> >>
>>>> >>> Friday, June 4, 2010, 9:16:50 AM, one wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>> what a bizarre list (I suppose they always are)
>>>>> >>>> http://www.filmlinc.com/fcm/mj10/agpoll.htm
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Bizarre in what way? Aside from the lack of any
>>> >> Japanese names (and only
>>>> >>> one Austrian) it's pretty much in line from what i
>>> >> remember of the
>>>> >>> decade and about what you'd expect from the listed
>>> >> participants.
>>>> >>> Certainly the WTF content is much lower than the run
>>> >> of lists of
>>>> >>> mainstream/arthouse features ...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Jim Flannery
>>>> >>> email suppressed
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>
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>>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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