From: Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez (email suppressed)
Date: Sun Jun 07 2009 - 12:21:35 PDT
it's been truly useful to follow this thread, you guys. you are a
walking encyclopedia JP! thanks again. i can vouch for almost
everything you mentioned after having tried most of those tricks
myself, and yes, Myron, i too have used vinegar to sweeten the
residue after bleaching and soaking in water, but left the film
outside overnight to dry and air out. overall i am not a fan of the
bleaching process. yuk! i too have found that warm water and
patience produce interesting results (and i am a scraper by nature,
so this works well for me). i too tried nail polish remover,
turpentine, etc. with mostly ill or nil results. i never thought to
use printing chemicals to develop film, nor to use fixer to remove or
alter the emulsion, although i have done hand-processing of B/W neg &
reversal many times back in the day (now i mostly use found footage,
including my own). just goes to show you CAN teach an old dog new
and no, JP, we're not technically old farts if we're still learning
Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
On Jun 7, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
> Again thanks for the further info.
> btw. I am planning to shoot some B&W in the near future. Since I
> have long ago used up my stash of old "army surplus" film stock, I
> may have to buy new... (ouch!)
> What do you think of Kodak Plus X Neg. stock today? Any
> recommendations for processing, I may end up just having it
> processed at Alpha Cine and have them print it.
> I do own some processing tanks as well as the old Morse hand-crank
> daylight tank.
> On Jun 7, 2009, at 10:22 AM, JEFFREY PAULL wrote:
>> Myron and Dinorah -
>> What I wrote comes out of my own experiences in film and still
>> and in teaching it. At my first teaching job, and as part of an
>> intermedia group,
>> I learned how to make B&W slides from B&W negs using Eastman's
>> 5362 (35mm version of 7362).
>> The tonality is georgeous.
>> When I got a job here in Canada, in 1972, the very first thing I
>> put in a requisition for, was an optical printer,
>> and I taught a course called "Frame-by-Frame", got the nearby
>> men's staff washroom (as they call it here) into a
>> darkroom, and my students shot and developed their own footage,
>> made loops, motifs, gestural sweeps, patterns.
>> They coloured it if they wanted.
>> That's how I learned how all this works. It took time and testing,
>> of course, to understand the interrelationships.
>> OK: Just in case . . . . . . a couple of hints - or are they
>> "tips"? - Maybe they're even "secrets".
>> If you develop B&W film: Any B&W developer will work, but keep
>> this in mind:
>> - Developers used for enlarging paper can also be used to
>> develop cine film. It gives you high contrast results and strong D-
>> Max (opaque blacks).
>> - Kodak makes (made?) several Hi-con developers: D-8, D-11,
>> D-19. They all work.
>> - The highest contrast developers are so-called graphic arts
>> "Litho" developers. They come in separate parts "A" and "B".
>> These developers are so active, you mix A and B parts just before
>> use, and the mixture dies after only several hours.
>> - All developers used to develop CAMERA NEGATIVE stocks
>> (still or cine) are low contrast developers and give weak D-Max.
>> Finally: The word "bleach", photographically, names 3 different
>> 1} Bleach that removes or lightens a B&W image, while leaving
>> the gelatine intact.
>> 2 } So-called "rehaloginating bleach" which is the chemical
>> used when you develop any reversal films.
>> 1} Clothes bleach (active ingredient chlorine) Removes image by
>> destroying the gelatine coating the image is imbedded in.
>> Gelatine is a protein; so chlorine will do the same to a
>> soaking hand, or air passages if breathing concentration is more
>> than laundry day.
>> So never mix chlorine bleach with anything because some household
>> stuff makes Clorox fizz which is pure chlorine.
>> If you get Clorox on your skin, it'll feel slippery. Wash you hand
>> (s) til they don't feel slippery and pour a little vinigar in
>> your hands to neutralize the last molocules of chlorine. By this
>> time, the Clorox has been diluted enough so it won't fizz with
>> Then you can squeeze the lettuce and eat the salad. (joke)
>> Dinorah and Myron -
>> I'm glad to know that at least part of my emails is (still!) useful.
>> Again, I'm a FRAMEWORKS fan, and I'm comitted to helping filmmakers.
>> So any time in future you think I might be able to help . . . . . . .
>> Jeffrey Paull
>> PS: I guess I assumed I was the only old fart in FRAMEWORKS
>> On Sun 07/06/09 10:23 , Dinorah de Jesús Rodriguez
>> email suppressed sent:
>>> hi JP and Myron,
>>> i too have been hand-painting and scratching on film for over 30
>>> years, but your comments on the removal of the emulsion and
>>> subsequent entries on photo fixer revealed some new information
>>> for me
>>> and i'm sure for many other readers. And it concisely summed up
>>> in a
>>> couple of pages what it has taken me many years to figure out by
>>> and error in my studio. Thank you for all of this great info. JP,
>>> i am printing out your post as a convenient handout to give to my
>>> students. thank you, and thanks to Raha for bringing up the
>>> enjoy today...
>>> Dinorah de Jes ús Rodríguez Film/Video Artist and Freelance Writer
>>> www.solislandmediaworks.com  www.artcinematic.blogspot.com 
>>> http://cinesthesia.blip.tv 
>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at .
>>>  http://web.mac.com/sol.island/iWeb/
>>>  http://artcinematic.blogspot.com/
>>>  http://artcinematic.blogspot.com/
>>>  http://cinesthesia.blip.tv/
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.