Re: Brakhage in 8mm (was: Film print as collectible (?))

From: Freya (email suppressed)
Date: Tue Dec 09 2008 - 05:01:04 PST

The e-bay seller also said Super 8, so if someone buys it they may be in for a suprise.

Were there any Super8 films made available by Stan?
I was impressed by the idea that the lovemaking print was originally only $30! I was thinking myself how wonderful it would be to be able to cheaply buy brakhage films like mothlight and to be able to project them on film on your little home projector! Wow!

I'm sure this was Stans motivation for making these films available in this format. I very much get the impression that Stan was the kind of person who wanted to make his films accessible. It's something I very much relate to, for some people the idea of their music in the bargain bin or the charity shop is the ultimate sign of failure, that their work has been discarded but to others, it is the ultimate sign of success that now their work can even be found in charity shops and is accessible to people with little resources. It's a kind of wide availability.

I guess that attitude can be hard for people to relate to especialy in the art world which tends to be built around high prices, scarcity and exclusiveness and in the real world I know from experience that if you make work available cheaply then people actually value it less!!

For people who have that different way of thinking tho, they love the idea of making their work widely available, some of it might sometimes be the naieve idea that people would love all this stuff if only they had access to it (an idea that is a little true but also nonesense) but is also the idea of making it easier for the people who need to find it to find it. Theres always people who love something and people who hate something and the more available you make the work he more chance it should have of reaching the right people.

These kind of artists might be drawn to the idea of mass production.
If it was about money then I'm sure Stan would have been better off making a limited edition one of a kind type thing and selling it for lots, but I get the impression he wasn't drawn to that, even tho that might have been more practical.

I guess it's kind of a political thing linked to ideals and ways of thinking.



--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Mark Toscano <email suppressed> wrote:

> From: Mark Toscano <email suppressed>
> Subject: Brakhage in 8mm (was: Film print as collectible (?))
> To: email suppressed
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 11:45 PM
> Just realized that I had written "super 8" instead
> of plain ol' 8mm. The reduction version of Love Making
> was 8mm, not super 8.
> As far as I can tell, and supported by what Marilyn and
> Fred wrote, it seems that Love Making part 1 was reduced for
> the Grove Press deal only, and all the prints were made from
> these 16/8 reduction internegatives, meaning that all extant
> 8mm prints should be faded by now.
> There were two internegatives made for this purpose, one
> featuring three full run-throughs of the film down each
> side, and the other featuring four. A single printing of
> the internegative would result in 6 (or 8) complete 8mm
> prints of Love Making. And I'm positive that the 16mm
> 1st generation printing master (or a 16mm print) was used to
> make these negatives, and not the original A/B rolls.
> The Songs were all originally made in 8mm, and I think VERY
> few prints were struck directly from these originals.
> I'm extremely grateful to P. Adams Sitney for loaning me
> his set (up through the high 20s) which are 1st generation
> prints, as these will prove crucial in restoring the Songs
> down the road.
> Very early on, I think about 1968, Stan struck reversal
> printing masters for all of the Songs and thereafter, all
> 8mm prints were made from these masters (or subsequent
> masters created ca.1975). Later editions of these prints
> are so-so in quality, mainly because the 7389 Ektachrome
> print stock was frequently used, and that has turned out to
> have not very stable color, shifting sort of purple. The
> Songs were never released in Super 8.
> All of the Songs (except Window Suite... and American
> 30's Song) were blown up to 16mm between the late
> '70s and mid '80s. I'm still figuring out what
> elements were used to blow them up. There's a fair
> amount of evidence (so far) that the blowups were not done
> from the actual originals, but I've yet to confirm this.
> Incidentally, the film Two: Creeley/McClure, which is part
> of 15 Song Traits (aka Song 15) was originally its own
> standalone film made in 16mm, and reduced to 8mm to be
> included in this series.
> Although the Songs could have technically still been
> printed in 8mm as of a few years ago (onto 7399 reversal
> print), the discontinuation of that stock in 2004 has now
> made it more or less impossible. There are no 8mm
> internegatives for them, and no reversal print stock, so
> that's it.
> The blowups do look interesting. I'm not an authority
> by any stretch, but I think some translate very well to
> 16mm, and others not so well. Song 12 is the only black and
> white Song, but it's only available on color stock now.
> I'm not sure if this was merely a practical decision on
> Stan's part, or an aesthetic one (or both?).
> As for how the 8mm prints out there are holding up, I would
> guess that if they're 7387 or 7390 prints, they're
> probably pretty OK, if they're 7389 prints, they're
> shifted purple, and if they're 7399 prints, they're
> shifted a tiny bit purple.
> Mark T
> p.s. In doing some early evaluative work on the Songs, I
> watched all the 16mm prints in order about 4 years ago. I
> was really impressed with My Mtn. Song 27 and its Part II:
> Rivers, and I can't figure out wht they're so little
> known. I highly recommend checking these two out, and
> Canyon Cinema should have newish 16mm prints of them.
> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Myron Ort <email suppressed>
> wrote:
> > From: Myron Ort <email suppressed>
> > Subject: Re: [FRAMEWORKS] Film print as collectible
> (?)
> > To: email suppressed
> > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 8:10 AM
> > Seems like I recall that Brakhage made his 8mm Songs,
> 8mm
> > Mothlight, and 8mm WWBM available for sale for many
> years. I
> > still have most all of them that I obtained by trade
> or
> > purchase during those years { including Window Suite
> of
> > Children's Songs, but not the much longer 23rd
> Psalm
> > Branch}. There must be quite a few of these prints out
> there
> > in people's collections, but I do not recall them
> coming
> > up on eBay very often. Are the songs still available
> in 8mm
> > or are they long ago sold out? Of the 8mm Songs I
> have, the
> > color has maintained remarkably well over the years,
> at
> > least last time I viewed them. I thought I saw that
> the
> > Songs had been blown up to 16mm and were available in
> that
> > form. Anyone seen the 8mm Songs in 16mm blow up, bet
> they
> > look pretty interesting. Who else has some of the
> Songs? How
> > are they holding up?
> >
> > Myron Ort
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.


For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.