Re: Julian $chnabel (ok...I too am enviou$)

From: bryan mckay (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Dec 08 2008 - 20:15:57 PST

While it's certainly a problem if people feel that Brakhage's
vocabulary isn't validated unless it's used in the service of a
traditional narrative, I don't think utilizing the vocabulary itself
ought to be an issue. Here's Brakhage's own words on having his
techniques borrowed (particularly with regards to the Superman + Text
of Light parallels):

When you want to worry about it is when they rip you off and make a
bad movie or sell some product that's disgusting. We've all had a lot
of that. But if someone makes a decent movie that's the way it should
go. Poetry inspires the novelists and the novelists sometimes include
a little poem at the front of the book or before every chapter and
vice versa. Great novels have caused poems to come into existence.


On Dec 8, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Myron Ort wrote:

> Now that you mention it, I think maybe you are right. I am not
> sure I would be any better taking "criticism" the way Safer
> brought up a known negative ringer like that. (The critic Hughes did
> not even "see" what the real Basquat was doing! -- calling him the
> worst painter to Schabel's second worst -- Hughes, imo, another
> jerk in all likelihood). Schnabel faired much better when he was
> interviewed along with David Bowie by Charlie Rose who actually
> knows his stuff across many areas. This was back when Schnabel had
> made "Basquiat" and in it Bowie had played Warhol. Incidentally,
> in that interview, Bowie was the one who came across with a rather
> surprisingly deeper aesthetic knowledge than the painter turned
> director, imo. But in any case, it shows how a good interviewer like
> Rose can bring out the best, and, as you say, in the end, Safer was
> a network jerk by comparison, and Julian may have been correct
> saying that the ploy was "lazy" on the part of Safer. But it was
> amusing how Schnabel couldn't let it go....I probably would have
> behaved the same though if a supposedly "friendly" interviewer
> brought up a known nemesis like that.
> It is easy to be annoyed by this artist's somewhat overblown sukce$
> $, but more power to enabled him to make movies, and to
> even make one that has been called (again by all too clever
> critics) "Brakhage for dummies" for using a smattering of the
> maestro's camera techniques (approximately) in the service of
> narrative, which, as we know, is typical of cinema these last few
> decades especially, however in this case, having chosen Brakhage,
> instead of just "fast cutting" or a light show dazzle ala Belson
> etc. , and having stayed on the techniques for a rather extended
> section. Really extended! Friends assumed I would really like
> "Butterfly" immensely, but I had to overcome resistance to seeing
> this type of camera used in that way and I am still not totally
> comfortable with some kind of assumption that Schnabel seems to
> have made "utilizing" that vocabulary so uninhibitedly . That is
> why I wondered if he, Schnabel, ever mentioned anything about seeing
> Brakhage films. I guess what annoys me, and what is difficult to
> explain to friends who assume I would be so impressed, is that there
> is, ever so subtly, the suggestion that this "first person cinematic
> vocabulary (so elegantly, uniquely, and miraculously innovated by
> Stan) is now somehow more "justified" because a bit of it is in the
> service of an otherwise "normal" narrative film. I don't know. Talk
> me down. Am I being too cranky?
> So is Schnabel now an "experimental" filmmaker as well as being
> independent and avant garde etc.?
> (at least he's not "underground".....yet.)
> Myron Ort
> (ps. in my aesthetic arrogance "(in the eye of the beholder...")
> seemed to me Basquiat often could "organize space and color" quite
> well, I have yet to see this in Schnabel's work....but that is just
> my own taste. {eg. remember the Hoyt Sherman link etc.)
> hmmmm....I am in deep doo doo now......
> {we are just talking here..... right....?}
> On Dec 8, 2008, at 3:16 PM, V Wolfe wrote:
>> The interviewer is the one who comes across like a jerk. I
>> especially like where he asks Schnabel
>> if he was a 'doper' because the artist mention marijuana. What an
>> idiotic inteview. Kudos to
>> Schnabel for getting through it. I'm sure it was extremely
>> irritating, and in order to do the publicity
>> for his films he had to put up with a lot of stupidity. Anyone who
>> has tried to live as a professional
>> artist in NYC knows how difficult that is. I give this guy a lot
>> of credit. He even changed forms, which
>> most people only dream about. I think Safer was jealous.
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> From: jason livingston <email suppressed>
>>> Date: December 8, 2008 7:27:21 AM PST
>>> To: email suppressed
>>> Subject: Re: Schnabel
>>> Reply-To: Experimental Film Discussion List <email suppressed
>>> >
>>> I liked the film quite a bit, though Schnabel can come across as a
>>> bit of a blowhard. Definitely seemed like Kaminski had borrowed
>>> some of the blue-brown ice melts from Brakhage's Creation.
>>> Jason
>>> Ithaca, NY
>>> On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:45 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
>>>> Happen to see a repeat interview on 60 minutes. Why does this guy
>>>> annoy me so much?....ooops, never mind. But I am curious, did he
>>>> ever, in public or in print, acknowledge, mention, or otherwise
>>>> credit Stan Brakhage, in any way, after he made that "acclaimed"
>>>> Diving Bell Butterfly movie of his? Or are we just as glad he
>>>> didn't?
>>>> Myron Ort
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.