Re: Fred Davidson - RE: FrameWorks, Obama, Satantango, politics, etc.

From: Fred Davidson (email suppressed)
Date: Wed Sep 10 2008 - 03:21:39 PDT

Dear Ben,
      Thank you for your comments. And hey, thanks for putting my name
way up high in the subject line where everyone can see it and marvel
in its beauty. That is not the first time that has happened, but, hey,
that is nice to see. It does wonders for my publicity and my publicity
manager is simply tickled pink over it. Aren't you Tony! However if
you were expecting some kind of reply from me you sure didn't make
that clear. Just to be on the safe side however I will answer. I don't
like to disappoint such people such as yourself. The little people
should never be allowed to be disappointed. Besides I like the name
Ben. Truly I do. I won't say why. But Ben is short for Benjamin isn't
      I'm not afraid of being thrown off of this list. Why? Because it
will never happen that's why. If Pip, our moderator, was to exercise
his heretofore never before exercised power and ask me to leave, as I
was being escorted down toward the door, as I was approaching my final
moment here, I am quite sure that Freya would jump up and scream in
ernest an impassioned, "Stop! Don't let him go!" on my behalf. I
wouldn't do the same for her if our roles were reversed you
understand, if I was standing in the sidelines and she was being
escorted down towards the door, I wouldn't stop it, I would let it go
on, but that is what I see as what would happen. Whereupon hearing
that impassioned appeal from Freya, Pip would never go through with
it, I would be unshackled and free to do as I pleased again.

Does that satisfy you or need I go on? Satisfied Ben? My mother and I.


Boca Raton (Mouth of the Rat)

PS I have finished watching the first DVD of the four DVD set of
SATANTANGO. Presently there is a long wait for disk two. I don't know
when Netflix is going to send me disk two but I am waiting. They no
longer count the whole set as one disk. A downer to be sure but that
deal was just too good to be true to last long. I mean, they have
Unseen Cinema and they have by Brakhage: an anthology. Both of which I
already own. I bought Unseen Cinema directly from Bruce Posner as a
matter of fact. I got the by Brakhage: from Amazon. You could have
rented both of these titles for one month for only $4.99 plus tax. You
can't watch both of them and do justice to them in a month but still
you get my point. That's cheap! That's very cheap!
      I am pretty sure though that at one point that is how they
conducted their business. Some time ago, I talked to someone on the
phone at Netflix and she explained to me that in cases where it was
one movie, such as The Godfather, Part II (Two-Disc Widescreen
Edition) for example, multiple disks would be counted as one rental.
Not anymore however. I was never a subscriber until just recently so I
had never actually put to the test what she had told me on the phone.

PPS The Stan VanDerBeek films on ubu are being made available with the
permission of, the expressed permission of, the Estate of Stan
VanDerBeek and the Guild & Greyshkul gallery, started by his, I
presume, granddaughter Sara. Now isn't that an eye opener! Now if you
will excuse me please, look at the time, I have a train to catch and a
gut to bust.

On Sep 9, 2008, at 11:42 PM, ben d wrote:

> Hello all,
> I haven't been following this discussion email for email but took a
> break from writing tonight to check my list account was really
> pleased with how Freya summed things up and circled the discussion
> back to film and support of this list's core.
> Many folks including me have made political posts here over the
> years, which I now try to refrain from. The discussions have been
> difficult but hopefully fruitful for the community.
> We don't only have technical concerns (that should remain the key
> part of this list as filmmaking knowledge becomes an artist-medium),
> we also have theoretical and social issues at play. The above
> sentence applies to both the makers and the academics (it seems many
> makers I know are teaching in institutions)....
> Are filmmakers who teach film academics or filmmakers?
> Are curators, programmers and critics who spend their time watching
> and thinking about our work any less valid? Are those of us who do
> both "unpure"?
> What about the staff at artist-run distributors and production
> centres, who often do everything in the questions above (maybe a
> Canadian/European thing)?
> Just some thoughts.
> In more direct things, I can understand discussions getting heated
> and arguments erupting but what I see from Fred Davidson in his post
> below is deeply problematic and abusive. I agree this list should be
> unmoderated and open, however some codes of conduct need to apply. I
> can't see this post meeting any standard of a fair code of conduct,
> especially based on Freya's even tempered and well thought out
> responses, even as I sometimes disagree I appreciate her comments.
> I'd hate to see this valuable resource for film as film descend to
> what I see in Fred's email as hate and vitriol without any content.
> We all take a risk in revealing our contacts to each other every
> time we post and any mis-use of that by subscribers (to attack
> someone through personal emails) is a problem we need to deal with
> as a community that supports film and is resistant to oppression, in
> whatever sense it manifests or is defined.
> Back to the grants to keep LIFT going and films getting made.
> Hope all are well.
> Ben
> info about and donations to the Liaison of Independent Filmmakers of
> Toronto (LIFT):

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.