From: Zev Robinson (email suppressed)
Date: Tue Jun 17 2008 - 10:48:20 PDT
Thanks for responding Jorge.....to try and respond about the shifting audience and fans for experimental cinema.....there are many micro cinemas appearing across the United States and now in Europe. These are small groups of experimental film lovers who banned together once a month, once a week or once in a while. They pool their funds together and project 16mm S8mm and R8mm films from the collection of work at Canyon Cinema....there people are mostly young 22-32......I do not ask them their age, sex, etc........I only make sure that they know how to project the films, have proper equipment and will be responsible for the careful handling of the films being projected..... The rising in micro cinemas, and movie galleries has increased quite a bit over the past decade and has filled in a large gap created by "film" schools" who no longer show films. I had a class of 25 beginning film students arrive for a visit from a well known SF University. When they came in the office two 16mm film inspectors were rewinding films, and I took them to the back storage space where we keep our inventory of more than 3000 motion picture films. One student asked me "what are these" pointing to the film cans, and "what are those people doing" pointing to the film inspectors rewinding movies...Interestingly enough the film "professor" who brought the students in...had already snuck out of the room. In March I presented an experimental film showing on 16mm and 35mm to a sold out audience at the Nashville Film Festival in Tennessee.....the show was a hugh success showing films of Ken Jacobs, Shirley Clarke, Ken Anger, Stan Brakhage, Michelle Silva, Donna Cameron and a very minor sampling of some of the work in the Canyon Cinema collection. After the showing there were a lot of questions, people hung out to talk about the work...most were about 25.....they were happy to finally see a Ken Jacobs film IN FILM and a Stan Brakhage film IN FILM....this grroup will soon be renting films for the small theatre they run independently of the Film Festival.... So I cannot agree that fans and audiences are decreasing.....I am not experiencing this when I go out at exhibitions. In Nashville before my screening there was a showing or short documentary films......and not more than 10 people were at the screening..... There is still a large interest in experimental cinema both new and old around the world....the program I took to Cuba last year had three standing room only exhibitions..... Dominic Angerame Filmmaker, Director, Canyon Cinema --- Jorge Amaro <(address suppressed)> wrote:Thank you David, that was a remarkable post. Dominic, I am sorry, I wont argue with you about that, you clearly know that more than I do, I am just a young man and as a young man I dont see my friends taking any interest whatsoever in those films, even with screenings and dvd's released. Experimental Cinema needs fans, needs people that see films out of sheer love, not only critics and acadamics, and teachers that 'force' students to watch them. And from what I see the interest is declining. People just dont care, either if they are in ubu or whatever. Most people of my age, I am 25, dont even know what a 16mm print is! I'm sorry if I sounded harsh in any way, but I will stick to my believe that low res clips had nothing to do with the decrease of rentals. And as reagrds for the dvd's on canyon as much as I like to support artists, i have bills to pay, and if I dont get the money by the end of the month, no artist is going to help me. It is my deepest believe that any artist should be paid for their work, but I also believe they should be reasonable with the prices they charge. And i can not travel at all to see a film like most of you people can, its unthinkable. Without the internent I would have never ever knowed what films lay out there, I would never be interested in supporting artists like I have done in the past, or try to find like minded friends to set up screenings (this as proven to be an endless crusade). While I have some resevrations about UBU posting crappy quality films online, i think that online snippets or even full films is the way to go and I stand by what I say, that no one will think they have seen the fiilm after seeing an youtube version, if that is true, why do people still flock to cinemas to see Indiana Jones and such films? They are all over the internet in several versions. 2008/6/16 Brook Hinton <(address suppressed)>:Two things: David: "The only times 21st century people stepout of their individualmedia cocoons is for 'special' events" My experience with students is quite the opposite.But that may reflect thatmy last two primary teaching gigs have been artschools. I do note some livecomponent adds greatly to the excitement(filmmaker in person, livefilm/video/audio generation of some sort). Dominic: "we pay the artist 50% not 10% that amazon pays" Just for the record, depending on means ofdistribution via Amazon(createspace - where it can range from 0% to 90%depending on the list price-or direct sale to amazon, etc), the percentage ismuch closer to 50 than to10. I haven't calculated mine in a while but Ibelieve it works out to closeto 40%. As someone who has chaired a film department, Ibelieve that while it ispossible online video sources have reduced cooprentals, the more likelyculprit online is torrent sites, and the likelyculprit is not online butthe astonishing, shocking, wholesale slashing ofrental budgets. A semesterof avant-garde film history on a budget of two ormaybe three hundreddollars anyone? And it's not just a film problem -how many rentals from VDBcan you get for that same amount for a video artcourse?The problem for me remains: making the best artone can and advancing theform requires that artists have the option to doit full time (yes, some cando it part time and produce great work, but theseare exceptions), yetobscurity wlll kill the forms outright, and weneed a culture where everysingle high school student in the country can seeSadie Benning's videodiaries, Serene Velocity, Window Water BabyMoving, and the list goes on...multiple times, in class AND on their own. How dowe meet the needs of theculture and the artist? Can we make the age ofinfinite digital reproductionwork to support this or are we going to drownourselves sticking to existingmodels and fears? Brook On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 3:45 PM, DOMINIC ANGERAME <(address suppressed)> wrote:Hi Jorge...actually 16mm rentals have not been disappearing....I think that is what most peoplewantto think.....just not the case....... Canyon's prices for sale dvds are high...we paytheartist 50% not 10% that amazon pays.... I do not know where you get that figure ofrentalsdecreasing...however I would recommend you buyScottMacDonald's new books called "CanyonCinema......"where the figures are listed from 1966 thru the present....regading the rental figures. Canyon Cinema sells this book for $29.99 plus shipping, tax. (address suppressed) Rentals have fallen ONLY SINCE DVD COPIES, UBU, YOUTUBE, AND OTHER RIP OFF COMPANIES HAVE COME AROUND..... I am sorry to be so angry...however, if youreallywant my professional advice and experience youhave topay for it......like you would any otherprofessionalwhether it be teacher, researcher, scholar,curator,or shrink....I will quote you unaffordable ratesoffthe list. I would like to know how much Re-voir and othersgrossa year in sales and how much goes back to the artists.... Dominic --- Jorge Amaro <(address suppressed)> wrote:Well, the dvd's and vhs i see for sale oncanyon arevery overpriced compared to the dvd's amazon sells. I nevercameaccross a single person that was happy with seeing the versionofFuses on UBU. It has a low resolution was badly transcoded andprobablyfrom some bootleg that is totally messed up. If there was aretailversion i would gladly buy it, and i'm very sure other peoplewouldaswell. I dont know the numbers of microcinema or re-voir buti'mpretty sure they sell, otherwise they would be out of businessand ifyou search hard enough you'll find most of the stuff theyreleasedon the internet for viewing and downloading. Hasn't the rentals in the last 20 years being decreasing any way? There was the big boom of experimental cinemain=== message truncated === __________________________________________________________________ For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <(address suppressed)>.
__________________________________________________________________ For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <(address suppressed)>.