Re: UbuWeb: Bad for Business!

From: Jorge Amaro (email suppressed)
Date: Sun Jun 15 2008 - 09:55:01 PDT


If you dont mind me asking, do you think that UBU or other such places
affected the booking of prints on canyon cinema? How as the booking
being since the beggining of this decade? As it declined in any way?

2008/6/15 DOMINIC ANGERAME <email suppressed>:
> As a ps......I believe it was me that wrote to UBU
> some time ago asking that they remove Bruce Conner,
> Peter Kubelka, and other filmmakers whom I knew only
> had thier work with Canyon Cinema and had no desire,
> intention, or inclination to digitize their work and
> present it to the public that way....for either
> preview or exhibition purposes......they do not need
> to pad their resumes and add another lecture tour at
> least no thru UBU
> Dominic Angerame
> Canyon Cinema
> --- Zev Robinson <email suppressed> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> I'd like to question thebasic assumption that Joel
> started off with, not saying that he'sentirely wrong,
> but just that it is not that it is not as simple as
> hestated, nor is it necessarily one side or the other.
> Is it really bad forbusiness?
> Are there any stats on claims of a loss of revenue?
> Are thoseartists who become better know because of
> internet (ubuweb, utube, p2p)more or less likely to
> increase sales of dvds or cds?
> Are their overallearnings more or less likely to
> increase via lectures, commissions,teaching
> opportunities, screening fees, purchases by
> institutions, andotheropportunities?
> On the whole, does ubu increase the popularityand
> renown of the artists on the site, and thus increase
> sales? ordoesn't it? And how many people _do_ buy a
> dvd because they first sawit on ubu and decide that
> they want a better quality copy? Just becausesomeone
> does see something on Ubu or utube, it doesn't
> necessarily meanthat they would purchase a dvd if it
> were not available. Nor doesseeing something on Ubu
> mean that someone won't buy a dvd to view on alarger
> screen and with better quality.
> I noticed that there are some links to re:voir to
> purchase the dvd ifone wishes to.
> I recently read that obscurity is a much greaterdanger
> to artists than file sharing. There are many articles
> anddebates out there on the complexity the
> relationship between filesharing and sales and the
> overall earnings of bands and how often itmeans an
> increase in revenues. My feeling is that Ubu provides
> aservice where people can see a copy or reproduction,
> quality issuesaside, of things that they may otherwise
> not see or know about, andthat broadly, enhances and
> disseminates an alternative culture, andthat can only
> be good for artists.
> Zev
> Zev Robinson
> Joel S Bachar wrote:
> Dear Frameworkers and Directors of the Board of
> UbuWeb:We would like to address some serious concerns
> of ours and theartists/labels/distributors we
> represent in regards to the practices ofUbuWeb, and
> some of the opinions posted about it on this
> Listserv.The recent threads have shifted to the
> quality of online viewing which wewould not like to
> address here as this is another issue.We feel that
> some of UbuWeb's practices are illegal and unethical
> and weintend to make every effort to protect our
> business and the property of ourcompany and/or the
> artists and company's we represent should we see
> suchpractices occurring.Let's begin by quoting a
> question direct from the UbuWeb's FAQ:Q: "Can I use
> something posted on UbuWeb on my site, in a paper, in
> aproject, etc.?"A: Sure. We post many things without
> permission; we also post many withthings with
> permission. We therefore give you permission to take
> what youlike even though in many cases, we have no
> received permission to post it.We went ahead and did
> it anyway. You should too. Source:
> It is
> unfathomable to us that the Board of Directors as well
> as the variousPartners of UbuWeb, including the
> institutions that fund and support thiswebsite, find
> this an acceptable practice! This has nothing to do
> withCreative Commons or Copyleft or Fair Use - this is
> outright infringement ofcopyright and theft and this
> type of practice is a direct threat to ourbusiness and
> livelihood and thus the livelhood of the hundreds of
> artists werepresent.One direct example are the films
> of Maya Deren. We are the exclusive NorthAmerican DVD
> distributor of her collected films and the film The
> DivineHorsemen, through an agreement with the label,
> Mystic Fire Video. MysticFire has been informed of
> this and is not in agreement with these filmsbeing
> made available on UbuWeb.Other infractions have been
> found in relation to the short films of Man Rayand Un
> Chien Andalou. In all of these cases, these films are
> readilyavailable on DVD for reasonable prices - both
> for retail and EducationalPPR. In addition our
> company as well as many other are spending time,
> moneyand resources to develop quality streaming
> solutions for these importantfilms. We agree with
> UbuWeb's lamentation that many works are only
> availablethrough distribution via prohibitive pricing
> but we do not agree that theanswer is to simply flout
> the system. This ignores the fact that
> manydistributors are adjusting the changing
> marketplace and other new entrantare developing new
> ways to do legal business.We have every intention of
> doing a thorough search on an ongoing basis ofUbuWeb
> for any film (s) that we distribute and we encourage
> others to do soand take the appropriate action - which
> is to have these films taken offunless proper
> permissions are given. In addition - the Presidents
> of theUniversities where the UbuWeb Board Members work
> and their respectiveGeneral Counsels should be made
> aware of the practices their faculty membersare
> supporting. The IRS should also be informed as the
> UbuWeb Foundationshould have its 501 c 3 status
> revoked. I guess this will earn us a nice spot on
> UbuWeb's self-righteous Hall ofShame. (Doctorow's
> light essay is about HIS decision to give HIS work
> awayby the way...) Maybe you should get permission to
> give work away. A lot of our time and energy and
> resources is spent researching rights,negotiating
> contracts, selling and marketing and promoting
> filmmaker's worksand paying royalties. Most of the
> time this work is done in consultationwith the rights
> holders. We are not getting rich off of this but it
> is ourlivelihood and we like to think that we are
> providing a service to thefilmmakers and the industry.
> We do not have the luxury of having a paid position
> and then moonlight tosteal copyright protected
> material under the loose veil of academia or worseyet
> 501 c 3 status. We assume the reactions to all this
> would be different if Ubu was part of afor-profit
> company like Google or owned by a company incorporated
> in a statethat has lax copyright laws.One Frameworker
> asked about UbuWeb:"Does the economy of this kind of
> work mean ubuweb's "grab and post"attitude is the only
> way such a comprehensive archive could come
> intoexistence? "Our answer:Not necessarily - there are
> many movements afoot in the industry which aregoing in
> the direction of providing better and cheaper access
> forall..whether it be by commercial or legitimate
> non-profit means. Our guessis that it will be a
> balance of private, public, and 501 c 3 concerns
> thatfind some way to communicate.But the continued
> weak reaction of our industry for illegal activities
> wouldmake the case for this stronger as time goes by.
> Grab and post is not an"attitude" it is a self serving
> philosophy. New web technology and changingconsumer,
> copyright owner's attitudes are changing and the day
> will comewhen a legal Ubu-web type entity will exist
> in harmony with allinterests..our company is working
> towards that goal.but when we seecompanies like Ubuweb
> (with respectable board members??) walk all
> overartists and copryright holders whilst
> philosophizing - it makes us wince.Like them or not
> there are copyright laws in this country that
> equateintellectual property to physical property.If we
> could steal gasoline with impunity right now we would
> start a verysuccessful airline - that would benefit
> society and stop us all from havingto pay such
> outrageous prices for air travel and remedy terrible
> service. Next I will start stealing wheat. Then
> electricity. We ask that UbuWeb's Board of Directors,
> content partners, filmmakers andall of you on
> Frameworks and in any media-making community begin
> take a VERYhard look at these practices and think
> twice about being involved with themand/or endorsing
> them in anyway.UbuWeb Board of Directors:
> S.
> Bachar and Patrick Kwiatkowski, Founders of
> MicrocinemaInt'l/Microcinema DVD1636 Bush Street, #2,
> San Francisco, CA 94109(415)
> 447-9750www.microcinema.com__________________________________________________________________For
> info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.
> __________________________________________________________________For
> info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.