Re: for visitors to NYC

From: Fred Davidson (email suppressed)
Date: Sat Jun 07 2008 - 06:02:00 PDT

Hi Beverly,

     I didn't view Kubelka's work on Ubuweb. I didn't know it was on
there. Now that I know I am looking forward to seeing it. That is
exciting news. Kubelka is probably my favorite. I had the fortunate
pleasure of seeing him present his films in person in early 1978. I
was in Buffalo and Pause had just come out. What I was thinking of,
what I was referring to, is the pirated video of Unsere Afrikareise
that Fred spoke of and that is floating around the web. I finally
came across that version myself too. That is pretty bad. Saying that
it is pretty bad is a gross understatement. It is pretty horrendously
bad. I think it has also been cut. I looked for scenes, you know, if
you have seen the film you know what I mean, the risque scenes, but I
could not find them. But again the video quality is so bad you can't
always tell what you are looking at... Oh, I see, it is no longer on
there. I can't go to Ubuweb to watch Unsere Afrikareise. I should
have read your whole message first before speaking. Hot damn. What a
      I don't know that I have any insights about the workings of
UBU. I don't know anything about it except what you just told me. I
can, however, tell you this. And this is really juicy too, this is
really juicy stuff. Listen to this. Tony Conrad is loaded. He is
absolutely loaded. The guy is practically made of money. If he
doesn't go to Europe two or three times a year I'm a kangaroo. He is
probably there now. For those of you who don't know, Tony Conrad is
the guy you see on center stage in the Alcatraz jumpsuit and the
blonde wig playing the violin. I don't understand why he would want
his film removed from UBU. How about it Tony? Do you want to give us
your regarded opinion on spaceships and UBU, and all that other
stuff, and all those unconfirmed reports, and even space people?

Fred (oldmoney) Davidson
Boca Raton
email suppressed

On Jun 7, 2008, at 4:22 AM, Beverly O'Neill wrote:

> When we were kids, Brakhage worked as the Coronet's projectionist
> during his L.A. chapter.
> Interesting that you viewed both Frampton and Kubelka's work on
> Ubuweb and you found that Zorn's Lemma maintained its integrity
> while Unsere seemed diminished. The UBU problem... so complicated
> since Kenneth Goldsmith who runs the site doesn't ask artists for
> permission to show their work. He simply uploads it and waits to
> see if an official request gets made to remove the film from the
> site. UBU streams a significant number of pieces this way, without
> any approval. Unfortunately on many college campuses budget
> reductions have forced faculty to cut back on film rentals from the
> co-ops, (Canyon, N.Y. Filmmakers, et. al.) so that many are using
> UBU in lieu of showing the real thing. The co-ops annual budgets
> are undercut by the over-use and dependence upon UBU. Filmmakers
> have a 50% share arrangement with the co-ops and that's in jeopardy
> since UBU feels entitled to take pieces, some of them lengthy,
> expensively made, famous, without providing any compensation. When
> Kubelka asked UBU to remove Unsere Afrikareisse Goldsmith placed
> him in the site's hall of shame, along with Bruce Conner, Tony
> Conrad, Oscar Fischinger, and Jordan Belson among others who not
> only didn't want their copyright enfringed band the co-ops to
> suffer as well.
> Any insights about the workings of UBU would be very much appreciated.
> Beverly O'Neill
> On Jun 5, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Fred Davidson wrote:
>> Thanks for confirming what I thought to be true Myron. I do
>> not have Brakhage's Film at Wit's End: Eight Avant-Garde
>> Filmmakers but I do have his Film Biographies in paperback
>> published by Turtle Island for the Netzahualcoyotl Historical
>> Society on my shelf. I am proud to have it. I bought it at a time
>> when there was no such a thing as the internet. I bought it at a
>> time when Brakhage's books were not always that easy to come across.
>> I grew up in Cleveland. I don't know too much about L.A. I
>> had never heard of the Coronet Cinema or of La Cienega Blvd. until
>> just now when you mentioned it. Whether the Coronet Cinema at 366
>> N. La Cienega Blvd. in the Beverly Center neighborhood of L.A. is
>> still open or not I do not know. It's web site seems to be down
>> this morning.* Most of the avant-garde film I saw growing up in
>> high school was at CWRU. I used to go to Strosacker Auditorium on
>> the Case Western Reserve University campus. Do you know, or, for
>> that matter, does anyone following along here know, if Hollis
>> Frampton used to frequent Strosacker while he was a student at
>> Western Reserve? Although he may not have because in those days,
>> before 1967, Case and Western Reserve were two separate schools.
>> Strosacker is on the Case side. It is not on the Reserve side
>> sweetie.
>> Speaking of Hollis Frampton, I watched his Zorns Lemma for
>> the very first time ever on the web, not on dvd, but on the web,
>> Ubuweb** to be exact, and I came away thinking that, Wow!, this is
>> very powerful. I thought the same thing about it that Leo
>> Castelli, Andy Warhol's art dealer, thought about Andy Warhol's
>> Campbell's Soup Cans, in 1962, when they were first displayed in
>> his gallery in L.A.. Very powerful. Now before anyone flies off
>> the handle in a violent rage ready to burn down the whole house,
>> be assured that I don't believe I could watch, say, Peter
>> Kubelka's Unsere Afrikareise on the web and come away thinking
>> that I had truly seen the film. I couldn't.
>> What I think you mean is that you took the path of least
>> resistance. I mean that is the best way to go, isn't it?
>> It was nice talking to you Myron,
>> Fred Davidson
>> *
>> **
>> On Jun 4, 2008, at 10:26 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
>>> You got it pretty much right Fred. From what I read in Brakhage's
>>> book he went from tweaked to bizarre to totally dysfunctional. I
>>> think some drug abuse and mental disorder was involved. btw, I
>>> highly recommend Stan's book and of course all of his writings.....
>>> I myself have not seen his films yet since they were not
>>> presented along with the historical avant garde cinema I was
>>> initially exposed to at SF State U film dept. in the mid 60s, and
>>> somehow I have missed local showings over the years here.
>>> Apparently they are not yet readily available in dvd format.
>>> I am looking forward to seeing them at some point along with all
>>> (or at least many) of the films I have missed seeing these many
>>> years. For example, I only recently "saw" (dvd if that counts)
>>> the Isou film since it was included in those recent avant garde
>>> compilations of Rohouer's collection that are on the market.
>>> Incidentally, when I was in high school in 50s LA we used to go
>>> regularly to the neighborhood Coronet cinema on LaCienega Blvd.
>>> Little did I know then.......
>>> probably saw early Brakhage films there at some point.....(I
>>> wouldn't discover filmmaking (as a path) until many years later
>>> when all other "majors" didn't seem to click.....if you know what
>>> I mean.....
>>> ps. the Coronet still seems to be there last time I visited (not
>>> long ago).
>>> MO
>>> On Jun 4, 2008, at 4:35 PM, Fred Davidson wrote:
>>>> Yes, that's right, Christopher Maclaine was his name.
>>>> Thanks Myron. Christopher Maclaine. No relation to Senator John
>>>> McCain or Bruce Willis's character Officer John McClane. Are the
>>>> rest of my facts pretty much right Myron? I don't remember
>>>> exactly. Have I grossly misstated anything here?
>>>> On Jun 4, 2008, at 5:49 PM, Myron Ort wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 4, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Fred Davidson wrote:
>>>>>> Where would avant-garde film be without junkies and
>>>>>> psychos? Well, it would be without the director of "The End".
>>>>>> What was his name? Marilyn? Fred? Anyone? Who am I trying to
>>>>>> think of? The speed freak that Stan Brakhage championed. He
>>>>>> ultimately died young in a mental hospital didn't he? He was a
>>>>>> junkie and a psycho wasn't he?
>>>>> Christopher Maclaine. (see Brahage: Film At Wit's End)
>>>>> Myron Ort
>>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.