Re: who's entitled?

From: Bryan McKay (email suppressed)
Date: Fri Jan 25 2008 - 06:48:29 PST

Well, based upon Chuck's defense of his work, I think we can agree that
perhaps his work doesn't entirely center on American filmmakers, but I do
think he is (perhaps willfully) missing the point. Either that, or he
believes women don't make films outside of North America and Europe. Of
course, addressing "third world" or postcolonial cinema would be quite an
undertaking in itself, but more accurately calling the book "First World
(Mostly) White Women's Experimental Cinema" would be rather unwieldy, now
wouldn't it? His defense re: the Lux history of experimental film seems,
again, to be deliberately missing the point. The problem isn't North
American vs. European film, or at least it shouldn't be. The problem should
lie within the systematic exclusion and marginalization of all non-Western
expression from the cinematic canon.
Let me stress that systematic bit. I'm not claiming that this book is the
problem, just a symptom of a huge disparity in representation. And I'm sure
it's a great book with plenty of worthwhile information, don't get me wrong!
It's just not quite the book it claims to be.

That being said, I do think I might like to read it.
On Jan 25, 2008 6:40 AM, Freya <email suppressed> wrote:

> --- Joost Rekveld <email suppressed> wrote:
> > for me (a european) this hardly makes sense. One of
> > the stronger
> > arguments for experimental filmmakers here in
> > Holland to get funding
> > for their work is that their work circulates
> > internationally, much
> > more than short fiction films for example.
> > Experimental films often
> > have no dialogue, and the experimental film
> > community is a much more
> > international network.
> >
> > (not meant to take part in a discussion on a book i
> > haven't seen)
> Don't worry the discussion isn't really about the book
> at all but about all the other stuff that people don't
> really want to talk about but know that they actually
> ought to. This is why people make vague knowing
> comments about things, expecting others to understand.
> (nudge-nudge, wink-wink etc) I think for people on the
> mainland it's harder to understand it all however as
> things seem to be nicer and more straightforward
> there.
> (Yay!)
> I had a big desire for some reason, to get the phrase
> "a nod is as good as a wink to a blind donkey" in here
> but couldn't quite work it in, oh well...
> The U.K. has a very messed up scene and history in
> paticular, which probably makes the u.k. people such
> as Nicky more aware of this stuff. The American
> history is generally the dominant one in experimental
> film for all kinds of reasons, a lot of them
> geo-political. This adds an extra dimension to do with
> power and stuff. At the core of all this is what is
> being excluded really, which is of course why there
> needs to be a book about female film-makers in the
> first place.
> In the end I actually think that most people really
> want to include everyone, because theres not loads of
> people really into this nonsense to start with, this
> is why when people try to create canons etc they may
> often try to crow-bar people in that don't quite fit,
> because they want to get everyone in there but then
> those people get their work kind of distorted. I've
> even seen people try to cram their own work into a
> canon where it didn't fit comfortably!
> You then have to throw in the fact that the knowledge
> about film varies from place to place and access to
> reasearch materials also varies.
> I'm hearing about lots of great books and I've even
> read a few, it's a good start but theres a long way to
> go and not so much time. You guys need to find lots of
> new ways forward and to work on these problems. To
> take an interest in more than just your own little
> furrow and to make sure your own little furrow isn't
> exclusionary.
> People need to find a way to try and understand one
> another more (having this list is great!) to be more
> inclusive and most of all to be a whole lot less
> prescriptive, (that goes triple for the u.k.) because
> there are some bad times coming and you are all going
> to really need one another.
> Make sure no-one gets left behined.
> love
> Freya
> > On Jan 25, 2008, at 7:30 AM, Chuck Kleinhans wrote:
> >
> > > 4. The more substantive point here is surely that
> > experimental
> > > film in particular circulates mostly within its
> > own national borders.
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > Joost Rekveld
> > -----------
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > "This alone I ask you, O reader, that when you
> > peruse the
> > account of these marvels that you do not set up for
> > yourself
> > as a standard human intellectual pride, but rather
> > the great
> > size and vastness of earth and sky; and, comparing
> > with
> > that Infinity these slender shadows in which
> > miserably and
> > anxiously we are enveloped, you will easily know
> > that I have
> > related nothing which is beyond belief."
> > (Girolamo Cardano)
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> > For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> > <email suppressed>.
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
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> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.