Re: protest nyc's proposed film and photo law Thurs Aug 2 Union Sq

From: Jack Sargeant (email suppressed)
Date: Mon Aug 06 2007 - 03:59:00 PDT

that's a great story... i love the idea of climbing over a fence with
all the props...


On 6 Aug 2007, at 13:59, John Matturri wrote:

> A favorite memory of shooting for Jack Smith was the time we were
> caught climbing over the fence, as we did frequently, into the
> desert-like landfill that would later become Battery Park City.
> Rather then being arrested for trespassing we were told that we
> would need a permit from the Port Authority. We carried our
> shopping bags of props and costumes up to offices in the WTC and
> Jack did try to negotiate, in his style, the permit. Anyone
> familiar with that style will guess that it was not granted. Not
> sure of the legal standards but one or two other excursions into
> abandoned apartments may have crossed the line from trespassing to
> B&E. Not saying that this is an argument to let filmmakers do what
> they want but it does point up potential cultural misunderstandings
> in the permit process if the authorities have any discretion in
> granting them.
> (Larry Cohen is said to have obtained a permit for shooting
> documentary footage of the St. Patrick's Day Parade and then used
> that to stage a shooting along the parade route for God Told Me To.
> By the time it was clear what he was doing he had his footage.)
> j
> Jack Sargeant wrote:
>> I love the idea of anybody on this list following these rules (if
>> they become law).
>> whatever happened to the rebellious spirit of underground
>> filmmakers? Jack Smith or Ron Rice or Kenneth Anger or Nick Zedd
>> or Craig Baldwin or John Waters ......... ? many underground
>> filmmakers depicted radical politics, drug taking or homosexuality
>> when it was illegal, and fuck the consequences.... what mattered
>> was the urge to express themselves.
>> ... isn't independent / underground / avant garde film meant to
>> exist DESPITE the absurdity of repressive rules?
>> "the key of joy is disobedience"
>> Jack
>> On 5 Aug 2007, at 19:04, Freya wrote:
>>> Grrrrr! :( Computer just ate my reply as I was about
>>> to finish it!
>>> I've written a new and somewhat vaguer and shorter
>>> reply. Sorry.
>>>> I find it baffling that someone from Britain would
>>>> sympathize with critics
>>>> of these rules. They are so incredibly generous
>>>> compared with the state of
>>>> things around London that it doesn't make any sense
>>>> but to support most of them.
>>>> If the desired alternative is no rules, that's not
>>>> going to happen, and it's
>>>> a bad idea anyway.
>>> Actually I don't live in London but up't North
>>> (There's plenty of people in Britain who don't live in
>>> London! Some of them don't even live in England!) but
>>> when I did live in London you are right I probably
>>> wouldn't film on the street as the regulations are too
>>> strict and so it's mostly only big companies like the
>>> BBC or ITN or Hollywood productions that get to shoot
>>> there. The met police are preety scary too.
>>> Having said that I don't think that just because I
>>> might not be allowed to film on the streets of London,
>>> that people shouldn't be allowed to film on the
>>> streets of other cities.
>>> Why would I think that, it seems kind of mean spirited
>>> and selfish. Like I'm having a really bad time so
>>> everyone else has to as well.
>>> Isn't the situation in New York at the moment that
>>> there are no rules, and hasn't it been like that for
>>> some time, in which case hasn't it already happened???
>>> Where I live in England there are preety much no
>>> rules, or at least they aren't enforced. I guess if
>>> you started seriously obstructing the public right of
>>> way then the police would be all over you sharpish
>>> otherwise they mostly don't seem to care.
>>> The exception to this is if you start filming on
>>> private property, such as the railways or something. I
>>> once got in trouble for filming the railway because I
>>> was in a car park (private property) and they got
>>> upset and I was asked to stop. They mentioned the
>>> terrorist attacks and stuff. I did point out that I
>>> couldn't imagine a terrorist using a Super8 camera
>>> when they could easily use a camera phone or
>>> something. I also asked what they thought the
>>> terrorists might learn from such a film or video? What
>>> time the trains arrive? (I always had a suspicion this
>>> might be a closely guarded secret!). Anyway my
>>> arguments didn't sway the fellow as it was much than
>>> his job was worth so I had to go.
>>> I tend to sympathise with people who are campaigning
>>> for freedoms generally, whether they have a chance of
>>> being succesful or not. It would be nice for instance
>>> if there was a bunch of people campaigning for greater
>>> freedom to film in London.
>>>> When people who don't like your lack of rules end up
>>>> blocking your public
>>>> activity, what rules are you going to apply to deal
>>>> with their interference? Or
>>>> do rules of behavior and deportment only apply to
>>>> non-artists?
>>> If there are no rules people tend to not think about
>>> it. In fact people probably don't know what the rules
>>> are or aren't really, so I can't imagine people
>>> getting upset about the lack of rules. Seems kind of
>>> an odd idea anyway.
>>> However as far as other members of the public
>>> interfering with filming, this happens all the time in
>>> the u.k. It's the normal state of affairs. You only
>>> have to take out something with a lens and people
>>> start acting like idiots. This even happens to the big
>>> companies from time to time too.
>>> I've never actually thought about having laws to
>>> restrict these people till now. Hmmmm.
>>>> What's absolutely incredible about this thread is
>>>> not just the naivete, but
>>>> the absolute self-centeredness of artists here. Not
>>>> everything is a free
>>>> speech issue. If you guys really had ganas you'd be
>>> Personally I do think that having restrictions on
>>> making films and video's is a restriction on peoples
>>> abitility to express themselves artistically, in which
>>> case it seems like it might be a free speech issue.
>>>> out there surreptitiously
>>>> filming no matter what, just like the old days,
>>>> instead of whining about things.
>>>> And you wouldn't complain about getting caught,
>>>> you'd just move on.
>>> The trouble is that these days you might get accused
>>> of being a terrorist and have all your work
>>> confiscated and have bad things done to you by the
>>> state apparatus. People still do risk it anyway but it
>>> would be nice if people just had the freedom to make
>>> their film or video.
>>> love
>>> Freya
>>> ____________________________________________________________________
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>>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
> __________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.

For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.