From: owen (email suppressed)
Date: Wed Aug 23 2006 - 13:07:45 PDT
This is a discussion list and we're discussing fees for screenings. I
don't think there was
any attacking going on. What's wrong with a little vinegar in the
On Aug 23, 2006, at 3:45 PM, david tetzlaff wrote:
> I know nothing of you, Susan or The Tank other than what I read on
>> I disagree if your point is to accept that the programmers at the
>> just made
>> an "aww shucks, we goofed" sort of mistake.
> I did not mean to belittle the problems you may have had. However,
> not knowing anyone involved, I did want to make the point that bad
> experiences not only come from people being venal jerks, but
> because people over-commit, make over-optimistic promises etc. I do
> not mean to excuse these things -- even volunteers have
> responsibilities -- but they do strike me as being on a different
> moral order than out-and-out exploitation. Again, I have no idea
> what the specific case was with the Tank when you had the problem
> As an outsider, I must say that there's a whiff of self-absorbtion
> in your call to re-focus the discussion, which is about Susan's
> screening series, back onto a problem you had with different people
> putting up a differnt program at the same venue. You seem to be
> offering the thesis that 'anyone who would associate with the Tank
> in any way is corrupt.' Since you have only provided your own
> individual case as evidence, such a global condemnation seems
> extreme. And if the Tank does "stiff the artists and curators who
> work hard for them" would that not put Susan in the ranks of the
> potential stiffees, and thus should she not get support instead of
> I agree that anyone who issues a call for work requiring an entry
> fee should include in the call a brief explanation of why the fee
> is being charged and where the money goes to. Maybe a small
> learning moment can come out of this otherwise dark thread.
> I do not believe Susan claimed her life was hard at all. She merely
> stated the fact that she is an unpaid volunteer. _I_ was the person
> who said that programming a new work screening series in NYC
> without adequate funding is hard. I certainly didn't claim that
> thusly Susan's whole life was hard. I do think we ought to show
> some respect to people who take on hard things.
> It is hardly 'crap' to analyse the material conditions necessary to
> do screenings of different types in different locations. That fact
> that you have booked shows out of your own pocket and/or by
> checking out prints from Donnel doesn't mean you've 'been there',
> unless you issued an open call for work and watched all the
> entries, be they perfect, passable or pathetic.
> Moreover, I get very tired of the Frameworks attitude, "well I've
> done such and such and so you should be able to as well." We all
> have different talents, different resources. So maybe you are more
> heroic than somebody else. It's bad form to dump on other
> volunteers because they don't put in as much as you do, if that's
> the case (of which we have no evidence).
> Since you don't know Susan from Adam, I wonder why you're rattling
> on about irresponsible volunteers in the complete absence of any
> compelling evidence that Susan has been irresponsible. In general
> terms, I happen to agree with you: in the world of filmmaking once
> you've made a commitment it should be sacrosanct whether you're
> getting paid or not. If you engage with the artform you owe _it_
> due respect, not to mention the people you work with. But where's
> the fire in this case?
> No doubt there is a lot of pent up frustration among film people,
> and for good reason, but this whole thread seems to be full of
> indiscriminate and un-aimed release of angst. Could we actually
> take some time and figure out who the REAL bad guys are, who truly
> and thoroughly deserves some righteous anger directed their way? Or
> would that only reveal our own impotence in that we have no means
> to touch the true villians or even make ourselves heard by them. So
> as humans tend to do, the shit just rolls downhill and we vent on
> whoever is available and just happens to look cross-eyed or
> something at the wrong moment.
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.