From: Freya (email suppressed)
Date: Thu Jun 16 2005 - 11:18:21 PDT
Ouch, maybe I need to start lurking on message boards
before jumping in and posting. It looks like I
strolled merrily into a heated battle while singing
about the beautiful flowers.
I only found out about all this dispute over jack
smith this morning.
Personally I think Jack should have just assigned all
his films and slides to the public domain and burnt
all the rest of the stuff himself. Then no-one could
get all nasty about it.
Then again maybe he likes it. As someone said "Let
them fight over it". I guess at least it generates
column inches and publicity.
I just feel sad for Jack himself, it seems that
everbody has decided he is valuable and special now he
has gone.
I also feel bad for his sister and I guess it's a
warning to all of us to make an effort to make our own
minds up about things based on our own experiences as
much as we can, instead of listening to what other
people and especially the media tell us.
For myself, I know very little about him and have
never seen his work.
love
Freya
--- Mary Jordan <email suppressed> wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> Let me help you plug this memory hole--her name is
> Honorable Judge Eve
> Preminger. She was not considering whether Flaming
> Creatures was public
> domain. This isn't even her jurisdiction. The
> entire hearing was held ONLY
> to give the Plaster Foundation a chance to explain
> why the Judge shouldn't
> order the Plaster Foundation to return Jack's
> archive to its legal owner,
> Jack's sister. We all know how this turned out--i
> think the hearing lasted
> 9 minutes! I'm writing this because people
> regularly confuse this issue
> because of mis/disinformation like you wrote below.
> There was never a
> question of ownership or the rightful possessor of
> Jack's archive through
> the eyes of the Surrogate Court and no appeal was
> filed by Jim Hoberman or
> Penny Arcade.
> > Jerry Tartaglia <email suppressed>
> > "I'm so glad you cleared that up. Judge
> what-her-name would certainly have
> > cringed at any assertion that the work of Jack
> Smith is in the public
> > domain."
>
> I never said Jack's films are in the public domain.
> I said FC is public
> domain. But I can take it a step further. Freya's
> research on US copyright
> supports our own research. We researched this
> question substantially after
> we learned that Jerry and the Plastered Foundation
> charged us to license
> films that belonged to the public domain, including
> the following PUBLIC
> DOMAIN Jack Smith films:
>
> Flaming Creatures
> Buzzards Over Baghdad
> Overstimulated
> Scotch Tape
> Normal Love
> > Jerry Tartaglia <email suppressed>
> > Sorry to have been indirect. Let me state it in a
> different way. Mary;s
> > comment is not correct. Jack Smith's films are not
> "in the public domain."
> > Judge Preminger of the Surrogate's Court in N.Y,
> ruled that Jack's sister
> > is the heir to his estate.
>
> Great point Jerry! Why don't you call Jim Hoberman
> and Penny Arcade and
> tell them they should hand over Jack's art to
> custody of his sister for safe
> storage (per the Honorable Judge's ruling) instead
> of clutching onto it
> whilst they negotiate (altruistically) for their big
> fat settlement to
> compensate their many years of (altruistic) service
> to (promoting) Jack's
> art????
> > Jerry Tartaglia <email suppressed>
> > My point then, is that once a judge has made a
> ruling, all parties must use
> > that decision as the starting point. All the
> other whodeeha about "who said
> > what to whom because she said that he didn't mean
> to say whatever" doesn't
> > really figure into the argument.
> >
>
> I'm sorry to raise the decaying horse, but a
> pocket-lining gatekeepers can't
> call me a liar without response. When I attempted
> to screen Jack Smith's
> films at the Donnell Media Center in 2002, I was
> told by the DMC that I had
> to obtain advance permission from Jerry Tartaglia
> and Jim Hoberman.
> Jerry's grant of permission included me paying a fee
> to screen at the DMC,
> which was supported by the DMC separately.
>
> What are the ends you believe I'm trying to achieve
> here Jerry?
> > Jerry Tartaglia <email suppressed>
> > Remember
> > when we had to read on Frameworks all about how
> the Donnell Media Center was
> > charging people hundreds of dollars to view Jack
> Smith's films? That was a
> > lie, deliberately told by a group of people who
> were trying to achieve their
> > own ends.
>
> Everyone on this list understands your interest in
> "reworking," demonstrated
> by what one filmmaker referred to as your "butcher
> job" on NORMAL LOVE. I
> suppose it's a matter of discussion, but from my
> point of view film
> restorers and documentarians share a common
> obligation; getting to the
> original intent and truth through their work. In
> the case of NORMAL LOVE, I
> would have thought this would include taking input
> from Tony Conrad on the
> music. From what I understand, Tony (who did music
> among other genius
> contributions for FC) had many notes and tape logs
> and other input available
> for NORMAL LOVE, but none of this was received or
> applied by you.
> Is this correct?
> > Jerry Tartaglia <email suppressed>
> > By the way, I am very interested in your ideas
> about "reworking" the work of
> > another artist.
>
> One approach to help capture Jack's qualities I can
> suggest is to actually
> talk to people who worked with him or knew him well.
> In the case of NO
> PRESIDENT, you might have spoken to people who acted
> in the film or who saw
> it when it screened. Two people I spoke to who
> acted in the film were upset
> that your "preservation" included substantial
> changes to the film itself.
> Jonas Mekas said of viewing it's original screening
> "....it was really the
> only projection of that film that ever took place
> and it was quite
> incredible and it's a pity that the film doesn't
> exist anymore."
>
> Why don't you list some of the people you consulted
> during your "research"
> on this project for the benefit of our FRAMEWORKS
> community? I myself am
> very interested......
>
> > As you know I went to great lengths to preserve
> Jack's films
> > in a particular form, based on research,
> interviews, etc. - Ken ( Jacobs)
> > pretty accurately described the films as the
> "detritus" of Jack's
> > performances. How is it possible to preserve the
> ephemeral quality that
> > only Jack could provide?
>
> Mary Jordan
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
> For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at
> <email suppressed>.
>
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__________________________________________________________________
For info on FrameWorks, contact Pip Chodorov at <email suppressed>.